Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

102nd military base of the Russian Armed Forces in Gyumri, Armenia.

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"It could also be that a war can be used to replace Aliev's clan with a more western oriented regime. "
This is possibly what USA is thinking but I doubt that it is a serious option. Moscow and Iran have strong interests and levers here thus they are not going to sit by and let USA take over here. Georgia is leaning back towards Russia and so is the Alieve clan and causing a rebellion of a coupe may be a last ditch effort by the west to force regime change in Azerbaijan but I doubt it will succeed.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

102nd military base of the Russian Armed Forces in Gyumri, Armenia.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"It could also be that a war can be used to replace Aliev's clan with a more western oriented regime. "
This is possibly what USA is thinking but I doubt that it is a serious option. Moscow and Iran have strong interests and levers here thus they are not going to sit by and let USA take over here. Georgia is leaning back towards Russia and so is the Alieve clan and causing a rebellion of a coupe may be a last ditch effort by the west to force regime change in Azerbaijan but I doubt it will succeed.

They took Ukraine away (and how bad, that most ukrainians consider Russians as their #1 enemy now) from right under Russia's nose and even 40% ethnic Russians there could not stop anything. It only took 20 years of financing an extreme anti russian propaganda and false Pan Ukrainian nationalist history.
They can create such a strong panturkic, panislamist (just like most of turkey is now) sentiment there that most of azeris can consider Russia and Iran big enemies.
You see, the game is not at all about democracy or peace, but isolation of Russia and Iran.
In every post soviet state and elsewhere, US is sucessfully cultivating public apathy towards Russians.
In every country the history is being reevalueted and rewritten blaming Russians for everything in every real or imaginary problems those societies have.
For azeris, they work to make them beleive that behind every defeat against us, stand the russians(and iranians too). With us, they try to make us believe that behind every turkic atrocity stand the russians.
Heck, they made Bulgarians blame russians in their countries energy problems while conning them into rejecting russian south stream gas project, which envisioned Bulgaria as an energy hub. How is that? LOL.
People, who were left under soviet-russian controll for so long and lost their independent national psichology(turned to soviet zombies), have become the easiest target for west in turning them into anti russian zombies unable of balanced political thought no matter how much it is hurting them.
War in Artsakh can reset sistems by toppling governments, like Yanukoviche's, and redirect desperate and exhausted populations.

[argin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

They took Ukraine away (and how bad, that most ukrainians consider Russians as their #1 enemy now) from right under Russia's nose and even 40% ethnic Russians there could not stop anything. It only took 20 years of financing an extreme anti russian propaganda and false Pan Ukrainian nationalist history.
They can create such a strong panturkic, panislamist (just like most of turkey is now) sentiment there that most of azeris can consider Russia and Iran big enemies.
You see, the game is not at all about democracy or peace, but isolation of Russia and Iran.
In every post soviet state and elsewhere, US is sucessfully cultivating public apathy towards Russians.
In every country the history is being reevalueted and rewritten blaming Russians for everything in every real or imaginary problems those societies have.
For azeris, they work to make them beleive that behind every defeat against us, stand the russians(and iranians too). With us, they try to make us believe that behind every turkic atrocity stand the russians.
Heck, they made Bulgarians blame russians in their countries energy problems while conning them into rejecting russian south stream gas project, which envisioned Bulgaria as an energy hub. How is that? LOL.
People, who were left under soviet-russian controll for so long and lost their independent national psichology(turned to soviet zombies), have become the easiest target for west in turning them into anti russian zombies unable of balanced political thought no matter how much it is hurting them.
War in Artsakh can reset sistems by toppling governments, like Yanukoviche's, and redirect desperate and exhausted populations.

You touched on a great point!the panturkists in Iran that want to create a South Azerbaijan state,mostly blame Russia for the 1800s Russia and Persian empire treaty,they say that was the reason there is a armenian state and Azerbaijan is divided,like you say its a plan to demonize the Iranians and Russians,and that's why I'm pretty sure about assistance from both sides in case we go to war with Azeris,Iranians don't want a powerful Azeri state since they fear a spark of a new revolution which will get their government changed and the nation divided into many states like Georgia did,Russia Dosent want Azeris there either since all these new pipeline projects makes Europe less dependent on Russia which is exactly what Russia despise,they want to control over Europe to be able to minimize nato influence and have a strong economy selling their gas and oil

[Tsov]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You touched on a great point!the panturkists in Iran that want to create a South Azerbaijan state,mostly blame Russia for the 1800s Russia and Persian empire treaty,they say that was the reason there is a armenian state and Azerbaijan is divided,like you say its a plan to demonize the Iranians and Russians,and that's why I'm pretty sure about assistance from both sides in case we go to war with Azeris,Iranians don't want a powerful Azeri state since they fear a spark of a new revolution which will get their government changed and the nation divided into many states like Georgia did,Russia Dosent want Azeris there either since all these new pipeline projects makes Europe less dependent on Russia which is exactly what Russia despise,they want to control over Europe to be able to minimize nato influence and have a strong economy selling their gas and oil

There are panturkists in Iran?

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

102nd military base of the Russian Armed Forces in Gyumri, Armenia

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I think the anti Russian zombie syndrome is wearing off. It wears off super quick for the leaders of nations who have to deal with reality on the ground vs general population watching bs tv. I do think we need to make peace with the azeris but the question is what is this peace going to look like? Global demand is rising and this means oil prices will rise to at least the level of shale oil cost. Good examples of zombies waking up are the Georgian and azeri governments shifting back to Russian sphere. A pro western media news source in Azerbadjan was raided by government officials shortly after a conversation between a USA official and Aliev. This is a bold in your face move by the azeris against the west. The question for us is how are we going to find a way to deal with our Turkish neighbors who seem to be turning more and more to the real power center in that region.

[argin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There are panturkists in Iran?

theres a lot of them specially as you head towards the North,they have acces to Azeri and Turkish radio and tv channels which gives them the chance to listen to aliyevs propagandas and be brainwashed.they hold banners at important events and soccer games in Tehran saying northern Iran is south azerbaijan,that is scary for the Iranian government and kinda beneficial for us Armenians since we will have a possible support

[argin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I think the anti Russian zombie syndrome is wearing off. It wears off super quick for the leaders of nations who have to deal with reality on the ground vs general population watching bs tv. I do think we need to make peace with the azeris but the question is what is this peace going to look like? Global demand is rising and this means oil prices will rise to at least the level of shale oil cost. Good examples of zombies waking up are the Georgian and azeri governments shifting back to Russian sphere. A pro western media news source in Azerbadjan was raided by government officials shortly after a conversation between a USA official and Aliev. This is a bold in your face move by the azeris against the west. The question for us is how are we going to find a way to deal with our Turkish neighbors who seem to be turning more and more to the real power center in that region.

But if they shift towards Russia,then we won't be a price position for Russia and then it would be easier for Azeris to start a war,I'm not sure if my point is right what you guys think?