Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Gevz]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakob - Monte is a national hero but what is your point exactly? I think most Armenians know who he is how brave he was and what he done for the freedom of Artsakh.

' out of 6 million diaspora Armenians under 1,000 showed up for the day Armenia needed it the most' why are you even bringing Monte up in this discussion ? he is above all of the diaspora put together a long with the other 1,000 Armenians that showed up on the day.

Stop going away from the facts and start talking about what sparapet said or what some other leader said. just because they come out and say something it's all okayyyyyyy lets sit back drink more coffees because they don't need our help it's actually funny. just for the record in case you were small back in those days 'Armenia' didn't have enough man on the day that is the reason why every plane leaving Armenia was stopped and anyone fit to fight taken out of the plane and sent to the battlefield.

in cinemas police/military would walk in and take the man to the artsakh to fight. enough man hey?????????

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I did not forget anything and I don't care how you try to take out ASALA out of diaspora's context. There have allways been criticism between everybody in diaspora. That's out of context here. Dhashnags or ramgavars or any armenian party of tea or A_Z group is still an Armenian diaspora.

Lampron, I am not arguing with you about diasporan organizations. that is not the subjec there. What is the issue is that who came from outside (diaspora) to be a hero in Armenia.
Monte is not a martian, he is a diasporan.

The surprise is that the #1 diasporan hero should come from the ranks of a very small group that was formed much later in diasporan history, and not from the much more numerous, well established and organized political parties with the branches across the world

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

btw, nothing to do with the thread, but we should move away from such slogans

They benefit no-one and they alienate moderate Turks who are potentially one of Armenia's greatest assets

Because of moderate Turks (and Kurds) demonstrations and public gatherings have taken in place in Turkey on April 24 since 2010

100%

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

A good turk is a dead turk

btw, nothing to do with the thread, but we should move away from such slogans

They benefit no-one and they alienate moderate Turks who are potentially one of Armenia's greatest assets

Because of moderate Turks (and Kurds) demonstrations and public gatherings have taken in place in Turkey on April 24 since 2010

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

You have forgotten that ASALA that came into existence in the 1970s was highly critical of the diasporan political and church organizations, and according to foreign media reports, the Dashnak party created a rival group, the Justice Commandos to undermine ASALA

I did not forget anything and I don't care how you try to take out ASALA out of diaspora's context. There have allways been criticism between everybody in diaspora. That's out of context here. Dhashnags or ramgavars or any armenian party of tea or A_Z group is still an Armenian diaspora.

Lampron, I am not arguing with you about diasporan organizations. that is not the subjec there. What is the issue is that who came from outside (diaspora) to be a hero in Armenia.
Monte is not a martian, he is a diasporan.

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The #1 hero was an active member and one of the leaders of ASALA. A very active member of Lebaneese Armenian self defence organization. A very vocal and active diasporan.
People, please keep the fatcs straight.

You have forgotten that ASALA that came into existence in the 1970s was highly critical of the diasporan political and church organizations, and according to foreign media reports, the Dashnak party created a rival group, the Justice Commandos to undermine ASALA

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The #1 hero was never a member of any diasporan party or church organization , essentially he had been an assimilated Armenian, who discovered his own identity when studying at university. In fact he rebelled against the passivity and slave mentality of the diasporan church and political organizations

In other words the Armenian diaspora structures had absolutely no role in making him the person that he was

The #1 hero was an active member and one of the leaders of ASALA. A very active member of Lebaneese Armenian self defence organization, who's activities were funded by armenian political parties and especially our church, which in turn used money collected in diaspora to finance and equip this defence force. he was a very vocal and active diasporan.
People, please keep your fatcs straight.
He is the proof that everybody of an Armenian ancestry can become what ultimately our country needs.
It is anoter matter that some do not like to see him as diasporan. But the fact is, he came in as a diasporan Armenian and considered himself as one.

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Just remember that the #1 Artsakh hero is a diasporan.

The #1 hero was never a member of any diasporan party or church organization , essentially he had been an assimilated Armenian, who discovered his own identity when studying at university. In fact he rebelled against the passivity and slave mentality of the diasporan church and political organizations

In other words the Armenian diaspora structures had absolutely no role in making him the person that he was

If not for the diaspora's international outreach and PR, Soviet Union would have crushed and wiped out artsakh movement right from the beginning.

You are mistaken. Diaspora Armenians took very few initiatives to expose the sufferings and injustices against Artsakh. The prominent activist to highlight their situation was Baroness Caroline Cox of the British House of Lords. Diaspora Armenians did not even know who she was

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

There is allways someone that appears in this forum not for discussions or exchange of information in mind, but with a specific goal that he/she is trying to fulfill aggresively and with disregard of forum rules or our community.
I thought that since there ware people that tried to spread anti Russian propaganda by all means, soon or later there was going to be some that tried to spread prorussian propaganda that equaled in distortion of facts and personnal attacks, never really touching the core issues in debth.
There were people that stood for prowestern ideas and had ideallistic view of democracy. But the problem that I saw was that most of the times they did not discuss about west or democracy in depth but rather indulge themselfs in anti Russian histeria in order to sway public opinion here.
Here is Gevzo, that seems to have taken the task of defending Russo/Armenian relations (like it needs his defence) his way, by spilling his hatred towards diasporans.
This is not new. Since 1940s, when first wave of emigrants arrived in Armenia, a motion was put in effect by local autorities (blessed from way at the top) cynically mistreating and mocking them, thus creating a rift between locals and emigrant "Akhpars". That misanderstanding by turning a blind eye, or indiscriminate labeling, while at the same time being sheepeshly unaware of diasporans or real facts about them is still alive.
Gevzo, when you point out that out of 80000 Syrian Armenians anly fiew thousand have relocated in Armenia, and lot of them have run out as soon as they could, should make you think, why? Maybe you can discover some stuff for yourself.
You mock the help and resources that Armenia has received since 1940s till now from diaspora. Nobody can open up an eye that is permanently blind. I will not try.
Just remember that the #1 Artsakh hero is a diasporan.
The sparabed Sargsian himself, in his public speach here declared that there were enough fighters in Armenia, what was needed was money and resources from diaspora.
If not for the diaspora's international outreach and PR, Soviet Union would have crushed and wiped out artsakh movement right from the beginning.
You play number game to justify your sick analisis, but not a single real veteran has ever said anything negative about diaspora's involvement. All the time war was going on, every Artsakhtsi or fighter spoke greatfully about diaspora.
There's one more thing. Do not use Armenian/Russian relations to attack diaspora, it is clear non related no go subject. You are not helping neither Armenia/Artsakh nore Russia and especially diasporans. You are a very small person to criticise diasporan Armenians.
I feel that you are not even a full Armenian, but somebody showing off here for a reason.
What can be said? Enemy never sleeps. Neither his propaganda.
Diasporan Armenians live in very diffrent environments that you can even imagine and have every right to come here to express their opinion about everything that conserns Armenia.
If you have something to add other than insults, please go ahead. Otherwise you can get lost out of here along with your kind of patriotism.

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

i call the attention of the moderators regarding this individual,

despite being given a warning ( by yourselves ) regarding his agenda of inter-Armenian hate, pursues to do the same.

This is not acceptable to any self respecting Armenian whatever and wherever his background

.

There is nothing to call attention to apart from your own hysteria

It is extremely important that the facts are made known, and the fact is that diasporan contribution has been extremely small

The point being made is extremely valid, and the point is that it is dangerous to Armenia's security to undervalue Russia's contribution

If you prefer to live in your fantasy land, then that's your problem, but you have absolutely no right to deny others the right to expose the facts

From 6 million under 1000 showed up on the day when it counted the most.

Wait.... Here is another interesting fact... Even the yezdis living in Armenia managed to organise a jokat and fight for something that don't even belong to them.

But yeah i'm a nutjob hahahaha its actually funny.

1,000? you are being very generous!

Probably no more than 20