Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

As I said Russia has a huge leverage on Armenia which is Armenias security and sadly there is no other country BUT Russia that can assure Armenias PHYSICAL existance and based on this Russia plays with us and we cant say NO because simply WE HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.

Thus you suggest serving Russia like a dog and forgetting the concepts of self esteem and national interest, which even Turkey doesn’t against the USA. Otherwise they will assure the Turks that they wouldn’t intervene if they decide to carry out the final AG: and the rest of the world will watch it with a little bit compassion, as in past. So you think that nothing is changed in world and Turkey can do with Armenians whatever it wants; if Russia doesn’t support us.

If you are intended to justify Russians behavior; none of my/others arguments, regardless of their truthfulness, will change your mind.

[ashot24]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Thus you suggest serving Russia like a dog and forgetting about the concepts of self esteem and national interest, which even Turkey doesn’t against USA. Otherwise they will assure the Turks that they wouldn’t intervene if they decide to carry out the final AG: and the rest of the world will watch it with a little bit compassion, as in past. So you think that nothing is changed in world and Turkey can do with Armenians whatever it wants; if Russia doesn’t support us.

If you are intended to justify Russians behavior; none of my/others arguments, regardless of their truthfulness, will change your mind.

No, your arguments are reasonable on many points, though I disagree in other points, but the things is that you don't want to understand we have depended on Russia for over two centuries, and there is nothing anyone can do to turn it otherwise in today's Armenia. As I said earlier, suggesting that Armenia should break from Russia's sphere of influence, and turn out victorious from it it's stupid ....it will lead to her economical, social, political, and geographical destruction.

I know very well Russia doesn't play in a common-benefit position with Armenia, but they are all we have for now, and if we ever want to change that...then Armenia must grow as a country to a point it can at some degree substain herself alone. Until then, we strongly depend on Russia because no other country will want to deal with us, either you accept it or not, for the last two centuries up to this new decade we have depend on Russia...it took that many time to be in the state we are now, do you think we can change it that fast?

But I don't know why, I think the main issue here is you don't like Russians, which is OK if you don't like the Russian government, which I also don't like...but I think you don't like Russians in general...am I right?

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

....
As I said Russia has a huge leverage on Armenia which is Armenias security and sadly there is no other country BUT Russia that can assure Armenias PHYSICAL existance and based on this Russia plays with us and we cant say NO because simply WE HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE......

There is always a choice in life.

BTW, I am not convinced of this. If Russia is looking out after her own interests then even with Armenia becoming evermore independent from Russia it will not change the security situation for Armenia.
What I mean to say is that no matter what the relationship is with Russia, a Turkish invasion of Armenia will hurt Russia and she will not sit and allow it and just do nothing even if they have broken ties with Armenia. This is a scare tactic to control that has been used by Russia (without us you are dead) very effectively until now and Armenia needs to move away from this old sense of panic and false sense of security.

If we don’t start thinking outside the box then we maybe doomed to stagnate forever.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Another thing to remember is that we Armenians are no longer defenseless likle we were back then, sure we can never match the #2 NATO military force but God forbid we find ourselves under a devastating Turkish invasion………I know Armenians will not surrender.
Turkey will loose and loose badly in a guerrilla/insurgency warfare inside the Armenian soil which can take many years, and they know it and there is no benefit in it for them other than their Pan Turkic wet dream.

[Palavra]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

occupying ROA is not harm Turkey much militarily but will harm economical and political. Anyway, Occupying ROA is not offering much to Turkey.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

As i have been saying a long time now, Armenia has no choices to pick from. It is either russia or death for what is left of our homeland. Grandious illusions of china-iran-usa as our saviours are just that-grandious illusions. Russias strategy has always been not to let its neighbors get too strong so that it will control them and that is the game it has played with the azeris and armenians and it is still playing it. This game serves russias interests but at the same time guerantees our own survival. Armenia will not become a great nation under Russias domination but it will survive as a nation because it is in Russias interest that it does so. Yes Armenia is a puppet state, no we have no other real choices. Our only hope is to get stronger slowly without provoking the russian bear. Most everything happening is scripted by the large powers of our day and the Armenias of the world have no say in any of it. I want open borders with the turck because i know this will benefit our country, it will benefit every country in the region except maybe georgia. Russia is doing what is best for her and no one can blame her and please when you talk of loyalty dont forget that armenia was the first republic who wanted out of the union thanks to the like of levon. A good point to also understand is that Armenia has yet to reach the standard of living it enjoyed during the soviet years. Russia provided us with security and prosperity and when we turned away all we got was heartache and pain, no one wants to go through that again. Look at the other collor revolution states like ukrain and georgia- their economies are failing and the pro russian sentiment and power is growing. Armenia was very lucky that collor revolutionaries like levon failed here. This world is not about justice it never has been, to survive you need to be strong or have strong friends.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

There is always a choice in life.
BTW, I am not convinced of this. If Russia is looking out after her own interests then even with Armenia becoming evermore independent from Russia it will not change the security situation for Armenia.
What I mean to say is that no matter what the relationship is with Russia, a Turkish invasion of Armenia will hurt Russia and she will not sit and allow it and just do nothing even if they have broken ties with Armenia. This is a scare tactic to control that has been used by Russia (without us you are dead) very effectively until now and Armenia needs to move away from this old sense of panic and false sense of security.

If we don’t start thinking outside the box then we maybe doomed to stagnate forever.

If Russia offers only dog-life choice to Armenia, I’d rather choose a version of the Georgian option for Armenia and try to throw out the Russian blessed/damned-now feet out of Caucasus, eventually letting her enjoy the “friendship” of Azeries and the Turks. I’m sure there are countries that will support us in it. Russia’s economic “support” is the very thing that prevents our economic development and is the main cause of the poverty.

I’m not the Russian enemy, but we can’t tolerate the Russian contempt/ignorance towards Armenia.

What happened to Georgia: it lost only the regions that were populated with other nationalities which supported Russians and this is the only reason/justification that helped Russians convince the west to leave them under the Russian control. Then Russia retreated from all the other lands they already occupied: after the US ship with nuclear bombs entered the Black See. And at the end of the Glorious cartoon war, now Russia is enforced normalizing its relations with Georgia and stopped terrorizing them, that’s it. And soon Georgia will become the land of prosperity in Caucasus.

Armenians are human beings and they also can’t live w/o self esteem and promoting their national interests.

[ashot24]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

If Russia offers only dog-life choice to Armenia, I’d rather choose a version the Georgian option for Armenia and try to throw out the Russian blessed/damned-now feet out of Caucasus, eventually letting her enjoy the “friendship” of Azeries and the Turks. I’m sure there are countries that will support us in it. Russia’s economic “support” is the very thing that prevents our economic development and is the main cause of the poverty.

I’m not the Russian enemy, but we can’t tolerate the Russian contempt/ignorance towards Armenia.

What happened to Georgia: it lost only the regions that were populated with other nationalities which supported Russians and this is the only reason/justification that helped Russians convince the west to leave them under the Russian control. Then Russia retreated from all the other lands they already occupied: after the US ship with nuclear bombs entered the Black See. And at the end of the Glorious cartoon war, now Russia is enforced normalizing its relations with Georgia and stopped terrorizing them, that’s it. And soon Georgia will become the land of prosperity in Caucasus.

Armenians are human beings and they also can’t live w/o self esteem and promoting their national interests.

Haha you're fool. Very fool, but leave it like that. A suggestion, put your feet on the ground, open your eyes, and face the entire reality of the case...I know it's a hard and uncomfortable reality, but it's the reality we have and we can't do nothing to change it under the conditions we find ourselves today. For Armenia to be ready to make such an important and enormous step, we first need to go one-at-a-time little steps...so let's focus on those for now, OK?

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

If Russia offers only dog-life choice to Armenia, I’d rather choose a version of the Georgian option for Armenia and try to throw out the Russian blessed/damned-now feet out of Caucasus, eventually letting her enjoy the “friendship” of Azeries and the Turks. I’m sure there are countries that will support us in it. Russia’s economic “support” is the very thing that prevents our economic development and is the main cause of the poverty.

I’m not the Russian enemy, but we can’t tolerate the Russian contempt/ignorance towards Armenia.

What happened to Georgia: it lost only the regions that were populated with other nationalities which supported Russians and this is the only reason/justification that helped Russians convince the west to leave them under the Russian control. Then Russia retreated from all the other lands they already occupied: after the US ship with nuclear bombs entered the Black See. And at the end of the Glorious cartoon war, now Russia is enforced normalizing its relations with Georgia and stopped terrorizing them, that’s it. And soon Georgia will become the land of prosperity in Caucasus.

Armenians are human beings and they also can’t live w/o self esteem and promoting their national interests.

Georgia not only lost those lands but its economy also got destroyed. Much of its economic revanue was from wine and fruit sales to Russia which are banned thus its economy suffered horribly. When push came to shove and russia attacked-where was the mighty usa? Georgia and ukrain will end up back in russias fold because it is a natural place for them to be, the present day conflicts are artificialy created by the zionist run cia. Leaving russia is simply impossible for Armenia-it will be the end for her and her people. Yeh we armenians are human beings but dont you remember what the turck did to us human beings not to long ago? The only reason it has not happened again is because of RUSSIA!

[Tigranakert]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Without the Russians, Armenia would not have existed. The day Russia stops supporting Armenians in Artsakh, the Azerbaboons, with the support of Turkey and Georgia, will launch a war claiming Artsakh, Syunik and eventually Yerevan.

Long live the Russians, a country who is slowly but steadily developing in the right direction, whose people have stood by the Armenians in times of difficulty (not mentioning the non-Russian communists), especially in the times of the Tsaar.

I would rather remember the positive things Russians have done for us, than mentioning the negative things. If we want to mention the positive things Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Europe has done for developing and safeguarding the Armenian nationhood, I can not even begin with one!