Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[ashot24]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Hey ashot24, that was exactly my point, without a strict family structure, communities don't usually advance, and the men don't have much to fight for.

And tribes are indeed the "lowest form of society," anything below that cannot be considered a society.

I know, my point was to make that they are far more advanced than what people believe they are.

I am also curious, does anyone know about a tribe or community in history that hadn't some sort of family structure? I believe there cannot be one, in all modern human societies the family (structured in the way it may be) has always been the nucleus. But do you know about one?

Haha and I don't believe they are the lowest form of society, they follow very strict rules, they have their own morals, then I look how degraded, unmoral and rule-less our society is...

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I don't about what kind of tribes are you people talking about, but I have worked with isolated tribes and communities of the Amazon region of my country (Ecuador) and they have a strict family structure inside their "lowest form of society". They are far more advanced than anybody could understand, and they have much to fight and die for.

Hey ashot24, that was exactly my point, without a strict family structure, communities don't usually advance, and the men don't have much to fight for.

And tribes are indeed the "lowest form of society," anything below that cannot be considered a society.

[ashot24]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Do you know why those tribes are isolated? Because had they come in contact with a society with strict family values, they would have been completely destroyed, as they have very little reason to fight and die, but the men with families do.

Tribes are the lowest form of society. They advance only when they form a strict family structure, which encourages even the weakest males to exert all their might in order to take care of their families. This is what creates advancement.

I don't about what kind of tribes are you people talking about, but I have worked with isolated tribes and communities of the Amazon region of my country (Ecuador) and they have a strict family structure inside their "lowest form of society". They are far more advanced than anybody could understand, and they have much to fight and die for.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Yes, that's right, but notice the key words, when they have young children. I never said they should never work, but that's what you implied with your previous post.

They pretty much prevent this from happening in the U.S. since working mothers are only given 6 weeks maternity leave. Here in Canada the mother by law can take from 6 months to a year without any repercussions to her career. Maternity leave can also be taken by the father in the same regards since sometimes the husband might decide to stay home with the young children due to the mother making more income. Simple laws like this make a huge impact on society.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

^About to say obnoxious American's, but then realised I was one.

Nah, I'm an Armenian citizen, not a US citizen. But obnoxious Armenian might work.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Levon you said women should not work if they have young childeren as a matter of fact you said yourself that you gave your wife a ultimatum to stay home so how am i exactly making a ass out of myself?

Yes, that's right, but notice the key words, when they have young children. I never said they should never work, but that's what you implied with your previous post.

Things would be a lot different had we just followed natures way. The family unit would be very differemt. Studying isolated indian tribes in the Amazon jungles yielded interesting discoveries about how people behave in a natural setting. There are no husbands and wives. People follow their natural instinct which is serial monogamy.

There is a reason why they are still isolated tribes, and not a civilization. Advancement is simply impossible without the strict order that a family unit provides.

A strict family unit provides several advantages over what you describe as serial monogamy. First of all, a man is assured that the children are his, and thus has much more to gain from working very hard to make sure that his offspring will have better future. This also means he has to be much more protective of his wife and children; thus, he will be more likely to go to war to protect his country.

Think of it like this. In many tribal societies where there are no family structures, a man cannot be sure which kids are his, so if he has anything, he will pass it onto his sister's children, because they are at least, related to him. Most men, do not have the incentive to work hard, because they need only to take care of themselves, and not a whole family. This is why such societies are still tribal, and will never advance any further than just basic stone-age technology.

You describe their life as care-free; however, you are forgetting the fact that these societies have virtually no way to store food for long periods of time. They are extremely dependent on their current situation, and can easily die out if in a year or two if they are hit by famine.

Marriage, traditionally, was an equal exchange between a man and a woman. A man would get reproductive rights from the woman, and in return the woman would get rights to the man's physical abilities. So in return for the assurance that the children would be his, the man would work hard to support his wife and their children.

Why do you think, in most traditional societies adultery for a woman was punished much more than for a man? There is a reason for that. It's because by marrying the woman gave her reproductive rights to the man, and she no longer had the right to give it to another man, even for just one night. This is also why, until very recently, the children in a marriage were considered the man's children, because he had essentially paid for them.

Similarly, why do you thing there is a strong negative connotation with the term "Dead-beat dad"; however, the term "Dead-beat mom" virtually has no negatives associated with it? It's because, by getting married the man accepted the responsibility of taking care of his wife and children. He no longer had the freedom to quit work.

Being a wage-slave is a choice that a man makes to make sure that his children are really his, and that he can raise his children the way he thinks fit.

If a man decides not to be a wage slave, then he can, as you described, sleep with several women without ever being assured if the kids are his, and will never have any responsibilities towards them. As a result, he will never have any loyalties towards any particular woman or child. In essence, that is just anarchy, and when trouble happens, very few men will be willing to die for children that aren't theirs, and for women that have no loyalties towards them.

Do you know why those tribes are isolated? Because had they come in contact with a society with strict family values, they would have been completely destroyed, as they have very little reason to fight and die, but the men with families do.

Tribes are the lowest form of society. They advance only when they form a strict family structure, which encourages even the weakest males to exert all their might in order to take care of their families. This is what creates advancement.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Things would be a lot different had we just followed natures way. The family unit would be very differemt. Studying isolated indian tribes in the Amazon jungles yielded interesting discoveries about how people behave in a natural setting. There are no husbands and wives. People follow their natural instinct which is serial monogamy. The whole village takes care of the childferen, men treat all the childeren like they are their own since they dont really know which is realy theirs. Jelousies and feuds are nonexistant. They showed the same tribe later after they had been exposed to money and the outside world and it was like looking at typical jerry springer bullxxxx. There is a natural way for people to live but it is nothing like what exists today. Nature does not make men into "wage slaves" and women into stay at home child bearing machines. The women in the village all worked to, they gathered fruits and plants used for eating and sewing and building and they were not being draged down by their childeren much because the village had its own version of daycare with a few people watching the kids while the moms were out doing their things. The daycare consept is not new nor is it western, it has been used since the begining of humanity and is quite natural. Human childeren learn useful social skills in a "day care" environment which they would not learn if locked up at home. My son was in daycare and my friends kid was not, while we were at my friends house his kid did not know how to behave with other kids because his wife stays home to care for the kids and the kids do not interact with other kids or people. His kid would regulalry get violent when he did not get what he wanted while mine knew how to deal with such situations since he faces them regularly. My son knew how to share toys for example while his would start fighting and crying instead. Natures way is very different then what people here describe. Humans do have a natural way of behaving and we would be happiest in that state but at the same time humans are one of the most versetile creatures on earth and it is this versitility-the ability to adapt -that makes us relatively a successful species. Sure we can live like levon describes but that is not the natural way for humans to live, what he describes actualy sounds very lame and boring. I dont think any man would be happy being a "wage slave" nor would a woman be happy locked up in the house all day. Levon you said women should not work if they have young childeren as a matter of fact you said yourself that you gave your wife a ultimatum to stay home so how am i exactly making a ass out of myself?

Levon is describing reality whereas you're describing fantasy... sure your way sounds better but it's not reality, nor is it intelligent or will it ever achieve intelligence which is why they are still living in the jungles. However that isn't reality for those of us living within the control of government. Do you not see the number of unemployed in developed world? Do you really think the generation that is in it's "hey, let's party, drink and behave like animals" are going to be a productive member of society? People with 2 degrees and decades of experience can't find work that pays enough to make a living. The future isn't looking bright for the U.S. or the rest of the world for that matter. This IS the perfect opportunity for Armenia to develop a higher order of society that will grow and flourish but it will take discipline which is what Levon is describing. If you think the "wage" slave idea is bad now, just wait until interest rates rise and inflation kicks in. Western society ain't seen nothing yet. Not sure about you but unless you're leaving the house to walk, it costs money to get around.

In regards to your son, if he had siblings, he wouldn't develop the "I'm the only one in the world" syndrome that most "only childs" develop by staying home. In that regard, it's good for him to be in daycare.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Things would be a lot different had we just followed natures way. The family unit would be very differemt. Studying isolated indian tribes in the Amazon jungles yielded interesting discoveries about how people behave in a natural setting. There are no husbands and wives. People follow their natural instinct which is serial monogamy. The whole village takes care of the childferen, men treat all the childeren like they are their own since they dont really know which is realy theirs. Jelousies and feuds are nonexistant. They showed the same tribe later after they had been exposed to money and the outside world and it was like looking at typical jerry springer bullxxxx. There is a natural way for people to live but it is nothing like what exists today. Nature does not make men into "wage slaves" and women into stay at home child bearing machines. The women in the village all worked to, they gathered fruits and plants used for eating and sewing and building and they were not being draged down by their childeren much because the village had its own version of daycare with a few people watching the kids while the moms were out doing their things. The daycare consept is not new nor is it western, it has been used since the begining of humanity and is quite natural. Human childeren learn useful social skills in a "day care" environment which they would not learn if locked up at home. My son was in daycare and my friends kid was not, while we were at my friends house his kid did not know how to behave with other kids because his wife stays home to care for the kids and the kids do not interact with other kids or people. His kid would regulalry get violent when he did not get what he wanted while mine knew how to deal with such situations since he faces them regularly. My son knew how to share toys for example while his would start fighting and crying instead. Natures way is very different then what people here describe. Humans do have a natural way of behaving and we would be happiest in that state but at the same time humans are one of the most versetile creatures on earth and it is this versitility-the ability to adapt -that makes us relatively a successful species. Sure we can live like levon describes but that is not the natural way for humans to live, what he describes actualy sounds very lame and boring. I dont think any man would be happy being a "wage slave" nor would a woman be happy locked up in the house all day. Levon you said women should not work if they have young childeren as a matter of fact you said yourself that you gave your wife a ultimatum to stay home so how am i exactly making a ass out of myself?

[hipeter924]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Gotta follow what Nature dictates

^About to say obnoxious American's, but then realised I was one.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Your sexism is showing

Gotta follow what Nature dictates