Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Levon, I'm talking about normal women not the selfish, materialistic, self-centred sl*ts.

I understand, but it's important to look and see what kind of cultural environments are more likely to create the kind of females that you just described(and subsequently the similar kind of males). It is my belief that westernized, liberal cultures that focus more on individual pleasures than family are more prone to creating those kinds of people.

Of course, I'd work with pleasure to help him in that particular situation. After all, isn't it the point of a healthy relationship?

That's good to know. The point I was trying to make is that by accepting the responsibility of being a co-provider for the family one loses the privilege of being the one to quit work whenever one wants.

And you don't marry the person for his money or his good job, that's like prostitution, if you ask me...

That's a point of view. Would marrying someone for good looks, intelligence, or personality amount to prostitution as well? I don't think considering money or job status amounts to prostitution as a successful family cannot be built (without a lot of troubles) without resources such as money or a good job, but I don't think these should be the only factors considered.

He brings her into his life knowing all the consequences and does that for her not out of obligation but out of love, nothing more beautiful than that.

That's true. Every person that marries should be responsible for his/her decisions, but to say that a man supports his family not out of obligation, but out of love is far fetched. I think it's the love of his family that drives a man into the position of a life-long wage-slave. It is a responsibility accepted out of love for his family, which becomes an obligation.

No. Obviously compared to men, more women for various reasons prefer stay at home and not work.

Personally, I agree with you, and I believe that whenever possible mothers should stay home, rather than fathers. But that comes from my belief that men and women are not equal, and cannot be compared to men directly, and therefore the privileges, rights and responsibilities bestowed upon men and women cannot ever be the same.

I think a statement such as yours can only be view in light of beliefs similar to mine. If one asserts that men and women should be equal on all social levels, and should be granted the same rights and privileges as men, then women should also be granted the same responsibilities. This would entail the impossibility of granting women special privileges based on sex (such as staying home because women in general have more reasons to prefer to stay home than men).

As I said before, one cannot grant liberties afforded by a liberal society and still gain privileges afforded by a traditional society, as it becomes unfair to men, and thus not-equal.

Okay but responsibilities have a degree of importance and come in different 'forms'… when one of the responsibilities is not being handled properly, you sacrifice the less important one to handle the other properly.

I'm assuming you mean that the responsibility of being a provider for a woman is less important that that of being at home with kids, and the responsibility of being at home with kids for a men is less important than the responsibility of being a provider.

This is the traditional way of looking at a family, and I do agree with that.

If I've been able to get the job then I have the right to work. I don't want to go further with this, maybe you should define what you mean by 'right'.

Now, that's an individualistic way of looking at things. First of all, if you are a single woman responsible for yourself, then by all means, if you can and want to work, you have the privilege to do so. Also, the ability to do something, doesn't necessarily grant one to do something. As an example, just because one can trash someone's reputation, it doesn't give one the right to do so.

However, if you're married with children and have been staying home, you have accepted the responsibility of being a homemaker and your husband has accepted the responsibility of being a wage-slave. When you work, you take on the responsibility of being a provider as well. Once you do that, you no longer have the privilege to work, but rather you now have the responsibility to work. Since you are now a co-provider along with your husband, you no longer can quit your job without affecting the family situation, and when the situation calls for one parent to stay home you cannot claim that right as a woman (because women generally have more reasons to stay home than men). Since if you quit, your husband will become the sole provider again, it would be up to him to decide it he wants that responsibility. You cannot force it on. Thus, your right to work, is essentially the responsibility to work.

Here is what I mean by a right. A right is a privilege with an associated responsibility. A right cannot be granted without the associated responsibility, but so long as the responsibility is performed, a right cannot be taken away. On the other hand, a privilege can be granted and removed without any requirements.

Okay, I just thought women would be more attracted to those men that the one who can't even make himself an omlette.

So by that you are implying that if a man doesn't do chores for his woman, then he is unable to make himself an omelet? I think not wanting to do chores for a woman (unless necessary) is completely different from being a big baby who is unable to take care of himself.

And I also think that when you said attracted, you meant marriage-material, not lusty attraction.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Civilitas Connects the Women's Resource Center of Armenia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIgXMacOIkg

Sergei Kapinos: Armenian women’s potential not used
06.02.2010 12:55 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Generally, Armenia is not a country where gender issues are easily resolved, according to the head of the OSCE Office in Yerevan.

“Armenian women do not seem constrained but there are environments where their potential is not used, for example security system,” Sergei Kapinos told a PanARMENIAN.Net reporter. “To help women fulfill their potential, Armenia should take up a correct social policy. Woman is the keeper of the family hearth. But if her family experiences problems, she will not be able to engage in public activities.”

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Right….we don’t need instructions either, specially from you.

You attacking a guy who you know has been banned and can’t defend himself. That is pathetic.

I didnt know he was banned, not that it would matter anyways. As for this thread all i gotta say is placing limitations on people is just plain wrong. Women can do almost everything men can and telling them otherwise is just not right. The differences between sexes are not big enough to bar members of one sex from doing any job. Family always comes first for guys and gals but this does not have to be a career ending event. Plenty of women can manage careers and family. Some of the best rulers on earth were women like catharine the great and eliziabeth. We armenians have women heros to like hripsime and gayane and taguhis.. I thought this thread was a great idea but it sure took a bad turn because of the same kind of intolorance and backwardness we witnessed in some of the other threads. It is sad but better it come out then corrupt from within.

[Siggie]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

There's nothing wrong with asking for references when you do it for the right reasons.

Guys knock it off please. No more posts unless it is about the topic of the thread.

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

A real man doesnt need references and he doesnt need the internet since he can only tell you something to your face, and he doesnt need .....

Right….we don’t need instructions either, specially from you.

You attacking a guy who you know has been banned and can’t defend himself. That is pathetic.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

A real man doesnt need references and he doesnt need the internet since he can only tell you something to your face, and he doesnt need .... we obviously have a bunch of Archy Bunkers on our hands here and the sad truth is we used to laughf at guys like him back in the 70s.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Well, you forgot to mention which definition you wanted me to use when reading your comment.



Ok, you're not threatening me, I'm relieved.



Ok, you're telling me what to do.



defiant comment...



Your entire post is an argument for the sake of arguing. Follow your own advice.



I've been on point with Pedro, he's the one that started deviating from the topic of discussion and dragged me along with it.

Sorry for going off topic Siggie but I continually state my point and one post of his contradicts the previous one, so I really just started to repeat myself again and again and provided credible references but somehow he just seems to ignore it.

Anyway whatever, sorry for going off topic, I just hope he can also admit to being off topic instead of lumping it all on me, he started going on disagreeing with me and reading posts I'm sorry as I am equally at fault for keeping on with the posts, but real man over here seems to be content with laying all the blame on me...which I thought being a real man was accepting responsibility.

Anyway, my 2 cents for the day, back to my drink.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Levon, I'm talking about normal women not the selfish, materialistic, self-centred sl*ts.

That's understandable; however, you failed to mention whether he can quit his work for "the well being of your loved ones" and you continue working.

Of course, I'd work with pleasure to help him in that particular situation. After all, isn't it the point of a healthy relationship? And you don't marry the person for his money or his good job, that's like prostitution, if you ask me...

That's an unfair assumption.
It's one thing to work for fun, but the second one has to support more than himself the concept of failure becomes unthinkable and work becomes an obligation (or in other words, the father becomes a wage-slave for the family).

He brings her into his life knowing all the consequences and does that for her not out of obligation but out of love, nothing more beautiful than that.

On a side note, by saying that "normal men love working" are you implying that the normal women don't love working? Does "Having a job, earning money give women fulfillment, strength and accomplishment?"

If both "men and women find having a job, earning money as sources of fulfillment, strength and accomplishment", then why only women would want to quit their job, and not men?

No. Obviously compared to men, more women for various reasons prefer stay at home and not work.

As I said, since rights come with responsibilities. Rights cannot be naturally equal when one group can pick and choose which rights and responsibilities she wants and at what time.

Okay but responsibilities have a degree of importance and come in different 'forms'… when one of the responsibilities is not being handled properly, you sacrifice the less important one to handle the other properly.

If he has to right to tell you to quit your work, then you essentially neither have the right to work nor the right to quit work, in return for the privilege of being supported by him no matter what. If you give your husband those rights then you are indeed far from being a "modern woman"

If I've been able to get the job then I have the right to work. I don't want to go further with this, maybe you should define what you mean by 'right'.

In that case you should have phrased your comment in a way so as not to imply a general statement about women. This would have been much better

Okay, I just thought women would be more attracted to those men that the one who can't even make himself an omlette.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Oh man, another person banned for speaking their mind and the truth. Whats this world coming to.... must hide from the communists.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

You just can't help yourself huh? Just because the word hostile is part of the definition of belligerent doesn't make them the same. And not everyone who is arrogant is condescending. See that little bit about patronizing? That's important too. They don't just toss extra words into definitions in an effort to be verbose.

Well, you forgot to mention which definition you wanted me to use when reading your comment.

It's clear that if I don't tell you to stop, you'll carry on indefinitely. I am not threatening you.

Ok, you're not threatening me, I'm relieved.

I asked you nicely and now I'm telling you to quit it with the frivolous arguments and stick to the topic of the thread because we have departed from the topic entirely at this point. We need some semblance of order here... I'm telling you as a moderator.

Ok, you're telling me what to do.

Do not reply to this to tell me you're not afraid of me, that I'm threatening you, or with some other defiant comment.

defiant comment...

This is at least the third time I'm asking; I won't ask you again. And no, I'm not kidding.

Your entire post is an argument for the sake of arguing. Follow your own advice.

And the same applies to the ongoing argument with Pedro. Distill it down to the relevant, ON TOPIC, points and carry on from there. Pedro, do the same please?

I've been on point with Pedro, he's the one that started deviating from the topic of discussion and dragged me along with it.