Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Ashot jan, axpers. I've merely responded to what you posted. Forgive me if I have misunderstood you; however, you forget to realize there is no shortage of opportunities for women in Armenia as there are for men. Everyone has to hustle through life, not just women. However, our society, the way it stands right now, cannot create a utopia of which you speak in a healthy way. It will lead to chaos.

Look at Sweden. Feminists there proposed a "man tax"
Look at Israel. There already IS a man tax, the equivalent of $400 per year. That's how much it costs to be a man in Israel. On the other hand, women get $400 per year in tax-cats. That's the privilege of being a woman in Israel.

Theories are good, but before you slam my ideas down, point me to a healthy society that has successfully eliminated the traditional male and female roles. I don't know of any, but please, do point me to one.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong in your saying that mothers create macho man. My mother never stopped giving me advice about women that would guarantee my virginity till my death. She tried to raise me to be the nicest most respectful boy around. The problem is I wanted to be grow up to be a man and not a boy. And a man cannot concern himself with the opinions of women around him. He leads, and women follow not the other way around. But hey, the modern definition of man is so convoluted that any one could pass for it, so why try right?

Also, most of the time girls WANT to play with barbie dolls, and boys WANT to play with action figures. Little boys get in fights when they are 3 years old, but little girls usually don't. I think genetic differences between men and women are so large that no matter how hard society tries, they will always be happiest in their traditional roles.

But what do I know. I am, as Haykakan pointed out, just a sexist bigot who is intimidated by intelligent women.

^
You obviously didn't understand me. But it's okay, I've read such quantity of nonsense all around I don't care anymore. I am not attacking anybody, I respect what people have to say, but I just won't shut up to some people here saying some of the things I've read. Yet again, they have the right to talk and if they want to F me...do it I will be happy to read it.

The only thing I am saying is that men and women should be equal and given the same opportunities to find their way in life, and no one can say whether that is right or wrong or what would it bring to society, we don't know that, what you say it's just mere speculations. If you believe we have a solid example by judging how it has turned out so far, then you are wrong. In order to judge what it would happen we would need centuries.

But yet again what you say is right, in order to be equal both men and women have to give up some things that are part of our millenarian society, and of course both will not be willing to do such things, so any chance to get "equality" in the entire sense of the word is very unlikely...but that does not mean that we cannot start by something or at least do some change.

I don't say we don't need women to be mothers and raise children, that's important for our society...but men can do as well. In fact, many men do as well. In the raising of the children, women commit a lot of mistakes, great part of men being such sexists and "machos" is because of the women's fault. Since we are children, specially if you have a sister, you will see how a mother treats the boy and the girl differently...since they are children, the female figure of the house will brainwash the girl so that she will play with Barbies (or dolls in any case) and be cute and girly, and while the boy has to play with trucks and action figures and be tough. The girls must learn how to cook, how to wash the dishes, you understand what I am saying? If the girl goes the other way around she's a 'tomboy' and if the boy goes the other way around he's 'nancy, and it doesn't necessarily has to be like that. Women are expected to marry and become mothers, and if they don't they are consider by everybody and by themselves they have not fulfilled their paper as women. This is how we are all raised up, and this is why society doesn't changes, we are brought up with wrong ideas, and in some cases prejudices, since childhood so what can we expect to be when we grow up?

Where I live we have a saying: (Spanish) "Machismo se escribe con M de Mujer" ("Machismo is written with M of Women" "Mujer" = "Women", I know it makes not a lot of sense when translated but the idea is there.)

And for your information I didn't have a "liberal-influenced Western education", I live in Ecuador, which geographically it's in the West hemisphere, but in the education you get is not liberal at all, it's very rooted to traditions and centenary customs, it resembles points of Armenian tradition when referring to men and women, saving the differences of course, not to mention it is also a very poor country.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

There are so many women that can burry guys like you with their intellect that you will be left standing there with a long drewl hanging out of your mouth not knowing what to say. Men who have intellect, are not threatened by smart women just guys like you feel women need to be kept under control.

Thanks for your response Haykakan. Frankly, part of being a man is letting go of the attachment one feels to his mother and stop seeking approval from women. I've been given my intellect by God, and he so may chose to place me in front of another of superior intellect, be it male or female. That wouldn't phase me one bit.

I believe what I've said based on my experiences. I couldn't give a damn if some women is smarter than I am. For that matter, I couldn't give a damn if some man is smarter than I am. I am neither the smartest, the wealthiest, nor the most handsome man alive; however, that cannot stop me from pushing through life. I hustled when I was young and poor, and I hustle now. Life is too short and waits for no one to sit around and contemplate whether someone somewhere is more intelligent than he.

But thanks for reminding me that women aren't the only ones that try to make a point by inflicting personal attacks. Great job, try better though.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Levon that was a long winded responce but the statement "Yes, no one disagrees that women play an important role in our society. They have the important role of being a wife and a mother, which is necessary for a society to progress. Without mothers there would be no new offspring and society will decay. As far as defending our homeland, yes, there have been some women who have done so, but they are the exception and not the rule." betrays your sexist nature. Basicly your saying women can do some things once in a while but are really only good for one thing-well ok two things according to you. That is still very hetamnats to say the least. There are so many women that can burry guys like you with their intellect that you will be left standing there with a long drewl hanging out of your mouth not knowing what to say. Men who have intellect, are not threatened by smart women just guys like you feel women need to be kept under control.

[ashot24]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

^
You obviously didn't understand me. But it's okay, I've read such quantity of nonsense all around I don't care anymore. I am not attacking anybody, I respect what people have to say, but I just won't shut up to some people here saying some of the things I've read. Yet again, they have the right to talk and if they want to F me...do it I will be happy to read it.

The only thing I am saying is that men and women should be equal and given the same opportunities to find their way in life, and no one can say whether that is right or wrong or what would it bring to society, we don't know that, what you say it's just mere speculations. If you believe we have a solid example by judging how it has turned out so far, then you are wrong. In order to judge what it would happen we would need centuries.

But yet again what you say is right, in order to be equal both men and women have to give up some things that are part of our millenarian society, and of course both will not be willing to do such things, so any chance to get "equality" in the entire sense of the word is very unlikely...but that does not mean that we cannot start by something or at least do some change.

I don't say we don't need women to be mothers and raise children, that's important for our society...but men can do as well. In fact, many men do as well. In the raising of the children, women commit a lot of mistakes, great part of men being such sexists and "machos" is because of the women's fault. Since we are children, specially if you have a sister, you will see how a mother treats the boy and the girl differently...since they are children, the female figure of the house will brainwash the girl so that she will play with Barbies (or dolls in any case) and be cute and girly, and while the boy has to play with trucks and action figures and be tough. The girls must learn how to cook, how to wash the dishes, you understand what I am saying? If the girl goes the other way around she's a 'tomboy' and if the boy goes the other way around he's 'nancy, and it doesn't necessarily has to be like that. Women are expected to marry and become mothers, and if they don't they are consider by everybody and by themselves they have not fulfilled their paper as women. This is how we are all raised up, and this is why society doesn't changes, we are brought up with wrong ideas, and in some cases prejudices, since childhood so what can we expect to be when we grow up?

Where I live we have a saying: (Spanish) "Machismo se escribe con M de Mujer" ("Machismo is written with M of Women" "Mujer" = "Women", I know it makes not a lot of sense when translated but the idea is there.)

And for your information I didn't have a "liberal-influenced Western education", I live in Ecuador, which geographically it's in the West hemisphere, but in the education you get is not liberal at all, it's very rooted to traditions and centenary customs, it resembles points of Armenian tradition when referring to men and women, saving the differences of course, not to mention it is also a very poor country.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I don't understand why some of you people are so sexist, not to mention awfully racist, which also some of you are, and at the same time. I guess it all comes in the same package.

Let's not delve into personal attacks and accuse anyone with a differing opinion to yours as racist or sexist (Mind I remind you, that's how women, who lack the intellectual capacity to argue, argue.)

The thing here is that women play an important role in our society and they have always done, whether you like it or not, they have succeed in all fields as well as men have. They have defended our homeland and have died for the freedom of our people, and they will do it again if it's needed.

Yes, no one disagrees that women play an important role in our society. They have the important role of being a wife and a mother, which is necessary for a society to progress. Without mothers there would be no new offspring and society will decay. As far as defending our homeland, yes, there have been some women who have done so, but they are the exception and not the rule.
I ask you, go to Armenia and ask women if they would like to be drafted to the army and hear every single one of them say nay. Until women are ready to give up the privileges afforded to them, because of a traditional society, they are not ready for legal and social equality with men.

Far away are the times when women could be only what men wanted them to be, when men went to work and women stay at home taking care of the children, not receiving education because they didn't need it. Those times are gone, and they will never come back.

I think you have a completely misquoted conception of Armenia which is probably, because of your liberal-influenced western education. Armenia has plenty of very educated women, it's just that when given the choice between slaving their whole life or being a wife and a mother, they decide the "empower" men with the slaving role.

Now, what do you think? That if women receive the same rights and the same equality to men they will all become who*res? So every women has a who*re inside ready to come out if they have the chance, right? So there are not decent women who respect themselves, right? That includes every women? Even your mothers, your sisters, your wifes and daughters (if you have)?

As I've said before, in order to achieve "social equality" for women, the role of man and woman in a society must be gotten rid of. This means to dilute the line that separates male values from female values; thus, get into a situation where it's not clear what a man and what a woman is supposed to be. A woman that wants to get into areas of male influence must first abandon her female values and roles and in essence become a men. But most women want to keep their female privilege, get the benefits of being a men and have none of the responsibilities. In essence, they just want more privilege. That's not equality, just more inequality.

Listen to yourselves! I don't say every women is decent, there are a bunch of who*es all around, they are sadly the majority some times, but that doesn't mean every single women is the same. There are decent, respectful women that can handle responsibilities greater than being a wife and mother, and succeed in it.

Pray tell me, exactly where did you get the idea that a woman that wh*res around does not respect herself? Ask one, and see what she says. Almost all women will say they respect themselves. To them, wh*ring around is perfectly acceptable. You may not find it respectful, but she doesn't care about what you think, just what other women think. And if other women find it ok, then it's ok for her.
See, the idea of respect is something invented by man, and thus man himself understands it much better than a woman. To a woman respect is something that revolves around her and her group of women. Not universal, but completely local to her surroundings. You can't use the same criteria for respect as hers are completely different from yours, and each woman will have different criteria.
Just by calling a wh*rish woman as someone who doesn't respect herself you are using your criteria to judge her, which is essentially what you claim as wrong (since earlier you said you can't expect women to behave how men want).

Women, and men, in the West are so f*cked up because Western society is much more liberal and tolerant towards things that have always been present in our society. Society has always been corrupted and dirty, the only thing is some centuries ago those things were terribly bad seen, because every single person was a hidden sanctimonious, they also committed disgusting things but they kept them hidden so nobody would found out. In Western society, the only thing that happened is that those people that had to keep their dirtiness hidden now could openly talk about it and show it to the world and feel no shame about it.

Read my previous post. Western society wasn't always as it is now. Just 60 years ago one wouldn't think of using profanity in front of a woman and would not tolerate profanity from a woman.

Just 50 years ago, no one would dare say divorce with no fault is a right. In fact, divorce was still considered dishonorable to the family.

Just 40 years ago, people would shame women who had abortions.

Just 30 years ago, society was vehemently against homosexuality (the anti-gay protests of the late 70's and 80s ring a bell?)

And just 25 years ago, one would think it monstrous if a woman made a false allegation of abuse to throw her husband in jail, sought a restraining order, then filed for divorce when he was still in jail to make sure she got the house, the car(s) and full custody of the kids, while the husband, who still loved his wife, could not comprehend what kind of a monster would do all that.
But now, that's standard practice, and the first thing a divorce attorney tells a woman is to get a restraining order.

Alas, changes happen slowly, but they surely do

--------------------------------------------------


Finally, I'm going to point out the following about our Armenian culture.

Why Armenian men refrain from using profanity around Armenian women?
Why Armenian men open doors for Armenian women?
Why Armenian men give their seats to Armenian women?
Why Armenian men protect Armenian women?
Why Armenian men work their whole lives for Armenian women?
Why Armenian men go to war and die for Armenian women?
Why Armenian women let Armenian men do all that for them?

Trust me, it's not because there is a belief that women are social, physical and legal equals of men. We know that men and women are different, and as a result we recognize that women WANT to lean on men, and because we respect and love our women so, we LET them lean on us.

If you want true equality, remove all of these social peculiarities and see how many women object to it.


Just some food for thought.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Sorry Kanadahye but I missed it because I can't believe what I'm hereing in this forum people saying if women start to work and persue careers and high positions they will become female wh0res I just want some elaboration what does this term mean?

Oh.. well, in America (and surrounding environments) a lot of women (not all) sleep with the boss and/or coworkers to get to higher positions. This is mostly due to their permiscuous culture in high school and college in addition to their bosses/coworkers at work being scumbags. Just an observation.

[Hye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Sorry Kanadahye but I missed it because I can't believe what I'm hereing in this forum people saying if women start to work and persue careers and high positions they will become female wh0res I just want some elaboration what does this term mean?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Sorry for the question I just want to ask people using this term female wh0res can you define what do you mean by this please? you people seem to use this term alot just wanna know what do you mean?

A female wh0re is like a male wh0re except more intelligent. It's in the dictionary, can't miss it.

[Hye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Sorry for the question I just want to ask people using this term female wh0res can you define what do you mean by this please? you people seem to use this term alot just wanna know what do you mean?

[Pedro Xaramillo]

God created female human/animals primarily for giving birth to children, taking care of them, feeding with milk and ensuring sustainability of the kind of creatures.

Is this thread going to make extinct the mammals population? Because here female are not supposed primarily doing things, God advised. FYI: male can’t do it on their behalf, for leaving female more time doing other things.

Actually lions are mammals and the female takes the role in the hunting...and the national symbol of Armenia is a lion so

You mean you never got the "I brought you into this world, I can take you out" speech from your father?

I think every woman in Armenia should dress like Xena: Warrior Princess

I think this should have a petition started, where do you sign, is there are process to go by yet? Are there any women willing to try to model these for us