Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Mexica did not make have division of labour and cooking and child rearing was oft assisted by the men, in addition women could study exactly what men could and were able to have a role in politics, the same is true for most Mesoamericans, in addition many Pueblo Indians take matrilinical stances and the women's surname is taken, just saying.

Before landed property, the woman's role was higher than men as you could always tell who the mom was, but the father was a tricky one in society

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

No you are basing your opinion on what is defined to you by Industrial and Judeo Christian society, before that, the role of women differed, particularly in Armenia and amongst early Aryans, the same applies to modern day Mexicans and original Nahuatls, you assume all civilizations functioned the same

Please tell me how that role differed, and state your sources. For so long as civilizations have existed the primary role of women has been in child rearing. And by civilizations I do not mean tribal communities, but actual city states or countries. Since you're including Meso-American natives, I assure you family values for Olmecs, Mayans, and Aztecs were as family oriented as in other traditional societies. And Inca culture also had similar family oriented values. None of these civilizations had female oriented cultures.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

You pwned him levon jan! lol

Thanks apo jan.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Now, actually x chromosomes don't make ya use personal attacks, so it's senseless to say all women do that, that's kinda what hits me in like a kick in the nuts, when people make unscientific statements, it kinda defeats the purpose of rational argument and reasoning, and technically you used strawman arguments on him. While we are on the subject of fair debate of course.

I don't recall ever saying that x chromosomes make one use personal attacks. However, based on my experiences and experiences of many others, most women use personal attacks to shut the person they are arguing with. Obviously, there would be some exceptions, but think back to an argument you've had with a woman and tell me if she didn't use any form of personal attacks.

Also, I did not use the straw-man argument against anyone, "Haykakan" however, did that several times. In fact your statement makes a straw-man argument as you assert that I'm making unscientific statements without rebuking my points by presenting scientific evidence that support your point of view. Then, you conclude that since you're right, I must be wrong, and since I'm wrong, my arguments cannot be sound.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Now, actually x chromosomes don't make ya use personal attacks, so it's senseless to say all women do that, that's kinda what hits me in like a kick in the nuts, when people make unscientific statements, it kinda defeats the purpose of rational argument and reasoning, and technically you used strawman arguments on him. While we are on the subject of fair debate of course.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Kanada you kinda remind me of rodney king. He got a million bucks but it didnt help he is still broke. Here you came up with a good idea (When another civilization outsmarts your dumbass, you fail-time to make changes) Then you used this rational to assume that a war between men and women is the cause of a civilizations collapse. You know women have much more freedom in the xxxish society then our own thus using your logic they showl implode but thats not what is happening is it. It is very amusing seeing you take a idea and run with it in the exact opposit direction. Reminds me of a play where a football player recovers a fumble and runs it in the wrong direction wondering the whole time why are the fans behaving so strange.

Joos are not a monolithic group, take a look at the vast difference between zionists and ultra-orthodox joos (under whom women are just as subjagated as in muslim societies). Not to mention the ethnic differences between the majority ashkenazim joos, and the smaller sephardi, and mizrahi. And on a related note, tel aviv has one of the highest per capita rate of homosexual clubs in the world.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Thanks for your response Haykakan. Frankly, part of being a man is letting go of the attachment one feels to his mother and stop seeking approval from women. I've been given my intellect by God, and he so may chose to place me in front of another of superior intellect, be it male or female. That wouldn't phase me one bit.

I believe what I've said based on my experiences. I couldn't give a damn if some women is smarter than I am. For that matter, I couldn't give a damn if some man is smarter than I am. I am neither the smartest, the wealthiest, nor the most handsome man alive; however, that cannot stop me from pushing through life. I hustled when I was young and poor, and I hustle now. Life is too short and waits for no one to sit around and contemplate whether someone somewhere is more intelligent than he.

But thanks for reminding me that women aren't the only ones that try to make a point by inflicting personal attacks. Great job, try better though.

You pwned him levon jan! lol

[gegev]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I agree with your points Levon. Nothing left to talk about. Every unnatural behavior will be eradicated by nature – naturally: but it takes some time.

hi gegev
your quote: "Every unnatural behavior will be eradicated by nature – naturally:"
Can you define what is natural? what is natural to you? Well in nature a female bears offsprigs from differnt male every time she is ready this is nature. Civilisation as itself is not nature. In the end we have brains we should think and find better ways.

I’m a former teacher; below are my/teachers/doctors advises (I know about) to parents, I consider them natural ones:

#1) while a female is pregnant she shouldn’t work: to give a birth to a healthy baby.

#2) mother feeds her baby with human milk to grow up healthy babies: is another natural thing. But emancipated men/women say it doesn’t matter (doctors claim the contrary) what kind of milk it is: they want to do something “civilized” instead.

#3) taking care with her baby until s/he becomes 3 years old, to insure the baby’s psychological health, instead of hiring a baby-sitter: is natural.

#4) Every day allowing 2-3 hours time to communicate with three High School children: help to learn lessons, council them and to take care/handle their problems for 12 years.
. etc.

To become educated:
High School, Univercity & Graduate study takes from woman – 24 years

Time to spend on children:
High School takes 12 years.
Points from #1-#3 for 3 children makes at least 12 years.
In total for 24+12=36 years, if a woman is really devoted to her children, can’t work with the same workload as a man does. Provided poor living contitions don't stipulate working.

So in this respect it is not natural to demand equal working rights for women before she is 36-40 years old. For the rest of the years nobody objects women working.

Note please if all the families will have just 2 children, in average, the nation would become extinct.

Among former USSR Republics in past and now Armenia is in the first place by the percentage of population with University/Collage education. And the distribution among male and female is approximately equal. It means women rights in education are respected, in fact, in Armenia.

Therefore even when women don’t work Armenians, in Armenia, highly appreciate educated women: because it reflects very positively on their children education too.
Therefore we don’t need such advises, that we need educated women: for about 90 years our women/men are explaining this others.

We love the pretty-educated-modest-reserved գեղեցիկ-կիրթ-համեստ-զուսպ women: What the Armenian men, in Armenia, dislike most (laugh at their husband): is the married woman, who is concerned about showing up her sexiness to other men, to attract/invite/force their attention on her.

Although there are some “civilized” (using the “developed” women terminology) that are doing it on some TV channels (trying to "teach" our girls) but, thanks to God, they are still mere minority here.

[Siggie]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

C'mon guys. I think we're mixing up a few things here.

Lastly, we need to distinguish between equality in rights and equality in other abilities.
Of course, men and women are different in many respects (not in intelligence though). This does not mean that they cannot enjoy equal rights.

You can not attribute all of what happens in western society to any singular characteristic of that society. That's absurd. You can't say that Armenia will turn into that if 1 single characteristic is applied.

Levon... Wow. What a nice strawman and woman couple you built there. Just because you can write a nice work of fiction like that doesn't mean that it is actually a reflection of reality. Are there actually couples like that out there? I'm sure you could find a few. But if that's the case, then that woman is just a selfish person period. It's not caused by anything else.

While we're sharing anecdotes... My mother has worked and she did out out of necessity. Unfortunately, financial restraints don't leave a lot of choice sometimes. But, would she rather sit at home? Not in a million years. She would die of boredom. She has continued to the housework and the cooking (and occasionally, particularly in the event of a big dinner party or something, my dad offers some help). There has never been any my money or your money. It all goes into the same pool. My mother never spent on salons, spas, and unnecessary extras like that. My parents don't even consider their earnings as their money either. It's OUR money. As in our family's. As my dad says, you can't take it with you. What they work to accomplish in their lifetimes is for the benefit of their children.

My father is about as "manly" the stereotype as they come, but he has never been that pigheaded as to handicap his wife and daughter. I don't know what he thoughts of women were before he got married and had a daughter, but I know how he thinks now. He made sure my mom knew how to do everything. Turn off the water, the gas, drive (you'd be surprised how many women especially the older generation never learned), pump gas, and most importantly that she had some kind of job. Why? Because he cared about her and his children. He wants her to be able to take care of herself and the family in the event that something should happen to him. How'd he treat his daughter? He never told me I couldn't do anything because I'm a girl. He spared no expense if it was for books or school. He let me be his assistant when he did home improvement/repair stuff. And he let me saw scrap wood and nail stuff together in the garage when I asked if I could. I know the names of most tools and I know how to use them. I played basketball instead of being encouraged to enroll in dance classes instead. I'm not completely lost when it comes to cars: when I look under the hood of a car I have a good idea what's what, I can check fluids, and I can change a tire. When I asked if I could get a job when I turned 16, they were supportive. I have worked the entire time I have been in school though my parents could have supported me. It taught me the value of money and gave me an appreciation about the expenses involved in adult life (I made my car and insurance payments, paid for my gas, clothing, etc). He always taught me not to rely on others; he'd say (in Armenian, if you're familiar with the expression), if you fall, you put your hand on your knee and stand up.
How did I turn out? I completed my BA in 3 years, got a Masters, while in that program at just within a couple months of turning 22, I taught my first class at a university. I have been teaching a class each year since then (it's now almost 7 years later). I finished my MA and got into a top ranked doctoral program that is halfway across the country. Because I had learned to be independent, there was no concern about my moving away. I moved and live on my own. I take care of my rent and living expenses myself. Now, I have a second master's degree (not the one on-route to the PhD for you academics who are wondering) and am in the dissertation phase of my PhD.
Do you think any of this has made me a worse person? I grew up in the US with those "crazy" western values all around me and parents who didn't force traditional gender roles on me and I think I turned out just fine.
I still want a family and I will take care of them while I have a career. There's no reason why it needs to be a choice if women are able to make it work so that neither their career nor their performance as a parent suffer.


We don't need to restrict women to the home guys. They can contribute valuable things to society. We need not only think of rules of countries as Pedro has pointed out, but we can look in any number of fields. Women in Armenia can contribute greatly to the conditions in Armenia. That will make it a better place not only for their children, but all children there.

Keeping a woman restricted to a domestic role, handicaps her. What if the husband dies as in example (was it levon's? hye's?) and there is no uncle who can provide? What would happen then? She'd have to be a maid or a cook to try to make out a modest living? I found the claim that had the uncle not stepped in, his son's would not have grown up as "men" highly insulting. How can you say that with a straight face? All male children grow up lacking in some way if raised by just their mothers? Sure, male role models are important! The uncle could have been a male role-model even if he wasn't the financial provider.

Even in the majority of cases, where that won't happen, her children will grow up folks. Then what? Then that woman has no skills, no job, nothing. She's supposed to sit at home day after day and do what?
If we love our women, should we not want them to feel fulfilled? We should allow them to choice; if they don't want a career, fine, but if they do want a career, they should not be denied that opportunity either.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Kanada you kinda remind me of rodney king. He got a million bucks but it didnt help he is still broke. Here you came up with a good idea (When another civilization outsmarts your dumbass, you fail-time to make changes) Then you used this rational to assume that a war between men and women is the cause of a civilizations collapse. You know women have much more freedom in the xxxish society then our own thus using your logic they showl implode but thats not what is happening is it. It is very amusing seeing you take a idea and run with it in the exact opposit direction. Reminds me of a play where a football player recovers a fumble and runs it in the wrong direction wondering the whole time why are the fans behaving so strange.

You're confusing slavery with freedom. It's a common American mistake.