Iranian-Armenian relations

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I don't believe Iran is trading with Armenia, because it feels bad for Armenia. That's not how countries run politics. Right now strategically for Iran, it makes sense to have good relations with Armenia - and given the economic restrictions and embargoes, trading with Armenia is a win-win. If having relations with Armenia was in some way harmful there wouldn't be any relations. To think that there is such a thing as "friendship" or "brotherhood" in politics is ridicolous and childish. Every country does what it can for its own gains and interests. Today, we are good with Iran because it serves our interests, who knows tomorrow this may not be the case. Relations between countries are dynamic, friends can become enemies, enemies can become friends...

I don't think this is the case for Iranians and Armenians. There are cultural and religious ties and educated Iranians are very well aware of Armenian historical presence in the region and our right to land as their neighbors. Sure, either side can turn against each other due to poor leadership but this again reinforces the need for good relationships between the people so they don't fall for such divide and conquer schemes.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I don't think this is the case for Iranians and Armenians. There are cultural and religious ties and educated Iranians are very well aware of Armenian historical presence in the region and our right to land as their neighbors. Sure, either side can turn against each other due to poor leadership but this again reinforces the need for good relationships between the people so they don't fall for such divide and conquer schemes.

No it is the case. If it was for religious and cultural ties, Iranians would be much closer to Azerbaijan as both are much more culturally and obviously religiously similar. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that Iranians are good to us because they "like" Armenians - it's ridiculous to think so. They do so because it fits their interests and they gain from good relations with us. They are right now strained with Azerbaijan, so it's only natural they will be good for us. This is international politics, country's foreign policies are not driven based on "likings" of other countries, it's what ever makes them gain. If it's in Iran's interests to be good with Azerbaijan and bad with us, they will in a heartbeat, as will any other country.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

mos what you say will never happen. Do you know what is earned in this world that no money, interests, or influence can ever buy? Century old trust. England and USA have a better chance of becoming enemies than Iran and Armenia.

The Iranian nationalist hold the same view as we do on "Azerbaijan" and call us brothers because like brothers we don't backstab each other even at national level. The Islamic regime of Iran does not approve of the religous conducts in Azerbaijan while being fully aware that most are the lost Iranian that need help, while clamping down on the GrayWolf movement in Tabriz (Northern Iran)....all the while making Turkey more dependent on their energy source (Iran's oil is the highest grade you will find on the planet) which Iranians would like to send it through Armenia to Turkey when the borders open (future plan), just as one example.
Relations are not as simple as you see it.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No it is the case. If it was for religious and cultural ties, Iranians would be much closer to Azerbaijan as both are much more culturally and obviously religiously similar. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that Iranians are good to us because they "like" Armenians - it's ridiculous to think so. They do so because it fits their interests and they gain from good relations with us. They are right now strained with Azerbaijan, so it's only natural they will be good for us. This is international politics, country's foreign policies are not driven based on "likings" of other countries, it's what ever makes them gain. If it's in Iran's interests to be good with Azerbaijan and bad with us, they will in a heartbeat, as will any other country.

Having the same religion and culture doesn't make strong ties, what makes strong ties is respecting each others religion and culture while cohabiting for centuries. Persians let Armenians into their country, let them build their churches and communities and didn't force them to assimilate. That kind of dedication towards acknowledgment of culture which Persians recognize is important for survival tells me that they have already been through thick and thin and the future can only mean more collaboration in the spheres of education and human advancement.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

mos what you say will never happen. Do you know what is earned in this world that no money, interests, or influence can ever buy? Century old trust. England and USA have a better chance of becoming enemies than Iran and Armenia.

The Iranian nationalist hold the same view as we do on "Azerbaijan" and call us brothers because like brothers we don't backstab each other even at national level. The Islamic regime of Iran does not approve of the religous conducts in Azerbaijan while being fully aware that most are the lost Iranian that need help, while clamping down on the GrayWolf movement in Tabriz (Northern Iran)....all the while making Turkey more dependent on their energy source (Iran's oil is the highest grade you will find on the planet) which Iranians would like to send it through Armenia to Turkey when the borders open (future plan), just as one example.
Relations are not as simple as you see it.

Again, you are naive in thinking that Iran and Armenia have had full trust of each other for centuries and this is somehow driving a "special" relationship. That is simply not the case. Given our rather volatile history, trust has been a luxury. Relations in the modern day are based on economic and political interests. You think Israel has been good with Azerbaijan because they like Azeris? You thinks US has beeen good with Turkey because they like Turks or have always trusted them? No, it's purely based on economic and geopolitical interests. Iran is doing what it can to be strong in the face of all the international sanctions and pressure. It would be stupid, given the current political situation, not to have good relations with us. And I would also like to point you how close Turkish-Iranian relations have gotten recently - more close than Iranian-Armenian relations. So please, look at it with a more critical eye.

Having the same religion and culture doesn't make strong ties, what makes strong ties is respecting each others religion and culture while cohabiting for centuries. Persians let Armenians into their country, let them build their churches and communities and didn't force them to assimilate. That kind of dedication towards acknowledgment of culture which Persians recognize is important for survival tells me that they have already been through thick and thin and the future can only mean more collaboration in the spheres of education and human advancement.

What does Persians letting Armenians into their country have to do with this? Kazakstan has let Armenians into their country, acknowledged us, churches, etc ... so what? Persians have been a good neighbour with us, and we should continue friendly relations, but we should never fall under the illusion that they are good with us because of some special "brotherhood". It's a common mistake for people to think that international relations are based off of such special feelings and nationalistic wet dreams. No, we pursue relations that benefit us, doesn't matter with whom. Same with Iran, that is why they have excellent relations with Turkey, much stronger relations than with us. At this point, for us, the best course of action is to be good with Iran, especially in economic sector. Will this always be the case? Maybe one day, it changes, who knows, the world changes dramatically - just look at for example Iran-US relations, Iran transformed from being a puppet of the US to being one of the most anti-US countries in the world.

You think Russia has strong ties with us because they want to be our brothers or because they like Armenians? If they didn't gain anything from their relations with us, they wouldn't give a sh*t about us. And that's true not only for Russia, but every other country that drives a sensible foreign policy.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You think Russia has strong ties with us because they want to be our brothers or because they like Armenians? If they didn't gain anything from their relations with us, they wouldn't give a sh*t about us. And that's true not only for Russia, but every other country that drives a sensible foreign policy.

There wouldn't be an Armenia if it weren't for Russia. Don't think that powerful people don't enjoy having the liberty of deciding who lives and who dies.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

There wouldn't be an Armenia if it weren't for Russia. Don't think that powerful people don't enjoy having the liberty of deciding who lives and who dies.

I know that, but don't be under the illusion that they did that because they felt bad for us. No, their help for us was based on the fact that we had similar interests in the region. If Russia had nothing to gain for themselves in protecting us, then they would have let us die or be swallowed by the Turks in a heartbeat. Fortunately, they had something to gain and thus we did not meet this fate.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Given our rather volatile history.

You sound like a the young Persian ultranationalist who hold us Armenians responsible for siding with the Romans against them...which not much longer he had to be silenced by another Iranian.

So please, look at it with a more critical eye.

Maybe you will as you get older. A stronger Iran is to our advantage. A Turkey that becomes more dependent on a close ally will never achieve regional power, let alone Pan-Turkic (Neo-Ottomanism) wet dreams, ever.

Irans relations with Turkey:

Economics
PKK/PJAK

That is it. The rest you hear is sugarcoating. Turkey is a competitor and infringing on Iran’s sphere of influence. Your personnal feelings don't count.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You sound like a the young Persian ultranationalist who hold us Armenians responsible for siding with the Romans against them...which not much longer he had to be silenced by another Iranian.

That's not what I was referring to.

Maybe you will as you get older. A stronger Iran is to our advantage. A Turkey that becomes more dependent on a close ally will never achieve regional power, let alone Pan-Turkic (Neo-Ottomanism) wet dreams, ever.

Irans relations with Turkey:

Economics
PKK/PJAK

That is it. The rest you hear is sugarcoating. Turkey is a competitor and infringing on Iran’s sphere of influence. Your personnal feelings don't count.

Did I say our relations with Iran are a disadvantage? No I was merely talking about the intentions of such relations. So don't infer incorrect things from what I said. All I'm saying is that it's silly to think that a country's stance towards another is based on some sort of "feelings" or sympathy. Again it's based purely on self interest. Iran would not even look at us if they didn't have something to gain from being good with us.

It is fact that Turkish-Iranian relations are growing, especially since Turkey cut ties with Israel.

Some articles about Turkish-Iranian relations:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/165375.html

http://www.irantracker.org/foreign-relations/turkey-iran-foreign-relations

http://www.iranreview.org/content/view/6488/40/

For Iran, Turkey is much more valuable than Armenia, so it's only natural they will seek close ties with Turkey, and even do it at the expense of ties with Armenia, if needed.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

That's not what I was referring to.

then what....religion.

It is fact that Turkish-Iranian relations are growing, especially since Turkey cut ties with Israel.

Turkey has not cut ties with Israel.

For Iran, Turkey is much more valuable than Armenia, so it's only natural they will seek close ties with Turkey, and even do it at the expense of ties with Armenia, if needed.

Turkey is a goldmine for Iran. Persian have no trouble taking Turkish Liar.

Hell, a disputed Island in the Persian Gulf is more important to Iran than Armenia if we go with your logic.