Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

[haysip]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

for the second part, Ayvazyan says that the Armenian genotype today, is exactly the same as it was 3000 years ago

[Persopolis]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

... "in this video Armen Ayvazyan ... says that intermarrages/rapes of Armenians were very rare ... and those babies that were not Armenian were being destroyed."

I don''t think intermarriage and rape are in the same category. Armenia was the easiest way to try to get into Iran and we know that Turkish tribes and Arab invaders sacked Armenia a number of times (and their practices are fairly well-documented). So, I think he's fooling himself and I'd doubt his position can withstand serious debate. I'm not sure "destroying babies" is a part of traditional Armenian culture (it would likely cause your women to flee into the arms of other men). If he's correct, I shudder to think what the implications are for recognition of the Armenian Genocide.

[haysip]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

I don''t think intermarriage and rape are in the same category. Armenia was the easiest way to try to get into Iran and we know that Turkish tribes and Arab invaders sacked Armenia a number of times (and their practices are fairly well-documented). So, I think he's fooling himself and I'd doubt his position can withstand serious debate. I'm not sure "destroying babies" is a part of traditional Armenian culture (it would likely cause your women to flee into the arms of other men). If he's correct, I shudder to think what the implications are for recognition of the Armenian Genocide.

u gotta know Armenian to know what he really means, other than that, i can care less what you think

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

I don''t think intermarriage and rape are in the same category. Armenia was the easiest way to try to get into Iran and we know that Turkish tribes and Arab invaders sacked Armenia a number of times (and their practices are fairly well-documented). So, I think he's fooling himself and I'd doubt his position can withstand serious debate. I'm not sure "destroying babies" is a part of traditional Armenian culture (it would likely cause your women to flee into the arms of other men). If he's correct, I shudder to think what the implications are for recognition of the Armenian Genocide.

First let me start by saying that you know nothing about history or geography. The easiest way to enter Iran is through Central Asia and not through the Caucasus mountain range and then through the Armenian high lands. Arabs conquered Armenia after they conquered Iran and most of the Eastern-Roman empire. When the Turkish tribes arrived there was no Iran to conquer all of those lands belonged to the Caliph in Baghdad. Good thing we have you telling us a historian is wrong but you are right isn't it. Thank you for the Anti-Armenian gibberish.

[Persopolis]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

First let me start by saying that you know nothing about history or geography. The easiest way to enter Iran is through Central Asia and not through the Caucasus mountain range and then through the Armenian high lands.

Ottoman-Turks & Arabs entering Armenia came from the West (not Central Asia)-- Huns, Tatars, Khazars, came from the North (Caucuses). They each used Armenia as a point of entry. On the question of direction of entry, you will recall that one of the reasons Shah Abbas evacuated Julfa was to deny the invading Ottoman army food and shelter.

You can find information at your local library - but in order to keep the thread on topic I will have to ignore your future comments unless I see that they are directly relevant to the topic.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

Ottoman-Turks & Arabs entering Armenia came from the West (not Central Asia)-- Huns, Tatars, Khazars, came from the North (Caucuses). They each used Armenia as a point of entry. On the question of direction of entry, you will recall that one of the reasons Shah Abbas evacuated Julfa was to deny the invading Ottoman army food and shelter.

You can find information at your local library - but in order to keep the thread on topic I will have to ignore your future comments unless I see that they are directly relevant to the topic.

The Arabs came from the South and the Arabs never used Armenia as a staging ground for attacks against Iran, they already had conquered Iran. The Ottomans were trying to conquer the Caucasus for themselves and wouldn't not use it to attack Persian hart lands, Mesopotamia is much easier to do that. The Seljuks the real dangers from the east came from the steppes in Central Asia not through the Caucasus. By evacuating you mean forcibly deporting people and making 20000-50000 people die during the marches?

You can ignore what ever you want but you are still proving that you know nothing about the subject at hand and your claims have been disputed by some one with real authority, an historian. You can keep acting the way you did and ignore it and keep posting anti-Armenian gibberish, I couldn't care less.

[haysip]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

The Arabs came from the South and the Arabs never used Armenia as a staging ground for attacks against Iran, they already had conquered Iran. The Ottomans were trying to conquer the Caucasus for themselves and wouldn't not use it to attack Persian hart lands, Mesopotamia is much easier to do that. The Seljuks the real dangers from the east came from the steppes in Central Asia not through the Caucasus. By evacuating you mean forcibly deporting people and making 20000-50000 people die during the marches?

You can ignore what ever you want but you are still proving that you know nothing about the subject at hand and your claims have been disputed by some one with real authority, an historian. You can keep acting the way you did and ignore it and keep posting anti-Armenian gibberish, I couldn't care less.

+11111

[Mos]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

I agree with you, but don't worry about it - at least a handful of Armenians have noticed the mentality of some among them - hopefully Iranians will be more aware of these attitudes (including Iranian-Armenians who may be put in harms way by other Armenians by thinking that it will be a bed of roses to include themselves among individuals with attitudes like Mos's).

It's also peculiar that Mos doesn't want Iranians to participate on threads germane to Iranians - like the Iran & Armenia Relations thread. [Have a Look: http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread....ht=#post313016 ] Though Mos knows little about Iran apart from the standard Zionist propaganda he constantly spouts off about Iranians -- he wants to propagate that nonsense without the participation of Iranians while pushing a myth that we are going to jump through the computer screen and deprive Armenia of self-rule by creating a "Greater Iran." It's a phony scare tactic typical of the Zionist lobby.

V

Oh great response, saying that Armenia is not part of 'Greater Iran' is now some Zionist propaganda - is it me or do you call everything you don't agree with Zionist propaganda? I will repeat for the millionth time - I want good Armenia-Iran relations, but I don't want Armenia to be placed under Iranian sphere, ever, and neither does any right minded armenian.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

Armen Ayvazyan (one of the best Armenian historians today)

... though really for this I need a smilie that is rolling around with side-splitting laughter! First time I've seen his idiot face though. For someone claiming that (if Haysip's summary is correct) the "Armenian genotype" today is exactly the same as it was 3000 years ago he looks more like an underfed Russian than a typical Armenian, and the woman after him looks like a decrepid old Persian peasant! Mind you, Hilter was far from his own ideal "Germanic genotype".

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

Armenia was the easiest way to try to get into Iran.

The Turkish Ghaznavids, who ruled most of eastern Iran in the 10th century, were invited in by the Abassid caliphate. They came from central Asia via Khorasan and western Afghanistan. The Seljuk Turks took the same route, first defeating the Ghaznavids, and by 1055 they were marching into Baghdad. Tughrul, leader of the Seljuks in Iran, then diverted further migrating Seljuk armies away from his own territories in Iran by encouraging them to move north and invade Armenia instead. No invasions of Iran came from the direction of Armenia.