Politics in Hayastan

[Mher]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Prosperous Armenia MP decides to give up parliamentary seat


YEREVAN. – Prosperous Armenia party deputy Melik Manukyan has filed a petition to give up his parliamentary seat.

The MP has addressed parliament speaker Galust Sahakyan, spokesperson for the speaker Arsen Babayan told Armenian News-NEWS.am.

Other two deputies from Prosperous Armenia party Aragats Akhoyan and Karo Karapetyan submitted applications on Monday to leave the party. They plan to continue their work in the parliament as independent MP s.

http://news.am/eng/news/253076.html

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Haykakan, what is your proof that Raffi is a "spy working for USA". please explain

Every time there is anything important going on either in our region or inside the country, Raffi says nothing, runs of to either England or USA, and then he comes back and says something. From this alone it is very clear that he is a puppet serving foreign interests but it does not end there. Talking to people here in USA who have deep political connections with the USA government, I have time and again been told that he is a part of USA foreign policy in Armenia and serves American interests-not Armenian interests. These same people who for decades swore that USA was the answer to Armenia's problems are singing a very different tune now and telling me that Russia is Armenia's only hope. Mind you that these are people who have every reason to be proamerican and have been just that until they to realized the dirty games played by the west and its antiarmenian policies. These are the facts of our present reality on which I base my opinion of Raffi on. There is also other circumstantial evidence where like the rest of the opposition groups he and his party have absolutely no answers to Armenia's many problems and are simply trying to get power rather then to fix any issues. The proof is very much there but most people either do not know what questions to ask to get the truth or they simply do not care enough.

[Mher]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Every time there is anything important going on either in our region or inside the country, Raffi says nothing, runs of to either England or USA, and then he comes back and says something. From this alone it is very clear that he is a puppet serving foreign interests but it does not end there. Talking to people here in USA who have deep political connections with the USA government, I have time and again been told that he is a part of USA foreign policy in Armenia and serves American interests-not Armenian interests. These same people who for decades swore that USA was the answer to Armenia's problems are singing a very different tune now and telling me that Russia is Armenia's only hope. Mind you that these are people who have every reason to be proamerican and have been just that until they to realized the dirty games played by the west and its antiarmenian policies. These are the facts of our present reality on which I base my opinion of Raffi on. There is also other circumstantial evidence where like the rest of the opposition groups he and his party have absolutely no answers to Armenia's many problems and are simply trying to get power rather then to fix any issues. The proof is very much there but most people either do not know what questions to ask to get the truth or they simply do not care enough.

When were these instances? Can you provide exact examples with dates? And how is that proof that he is taking directions in the United States. Lol why would he feel the need to physically travel somewhere to take directions and come back lol? I think maybe you're trying really really hard to create some causation out of some very weak correlation to support your predetermined view

And your evidence is people you can't name who you say are important who claim "he is a part of USA foreign policy in Armenia and serves American interests". How is that substantiated evidence? I can just claim I know people who say Dodig is a foreign agent for Venezuela. It would be exactly as valid as what you're saying-which is not very valid at all considering the lack of evidence

There are dozens maybe hundreds of leaked cables from US officials, diplomats, representatives, discussing Raffi (and other Armenian politicians) when they assumed those emails would have remained confidential forever, and there is never any mention of such a thing. You think if you were right, maybe something would have come up somewhere? Moreover, in these emails he is often looked upon as an inferior choice for US interests compared to other political leaders in Armenia.


"There is also other circumstantial evidence where like the rest of the opposition groups he and his party have absolutely no answers to Armenia's many problems and are simply trying to get power rather then to fix any issues"

And lmaoo how is that proof of ANYTHING???!!!!! let alone proof that he's a US agent?



"The proof is very much there but most people either do not know what questions to ask to get the truth or they simply do not care enough. "

Yeah based on that reasoning, there is proof there for anything. Based on that reasoning creationism is supported by facts and evolutions is imaginary. Only if you look hard enough, and try to find almost nonexistent facts to support your predetermined view.

Like I said, I think he's too idealistic and noncommittal to be president. However it has nothing to do with him being a foreign agent.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Mher you are free to think whatever you like. I will not compromise my sources because I am afraid doing so could harm them. During the last presidential campaign Raffi made it very clear he is taking orders from others because during the whole fiasco he would leave for a few days then return with a new agenda and every time there was change it was the same thing again. I do not know who he talked to or what he talked about during these trips but it was common knowledge he was meeting with western agents. I am not the cia nor kgb so I do not have recordings nor youtube videos to share with you. The answers are there for those who can put facts together and draw inferences or you can just believe what the news tells you to believe..the choice is yours.

[Mher]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Mher you are free to think whatever you like. I will not compromise my sources because I am afraid doing so could harm them. During the last presidential campaign Raffi made it very clear he is taking orders from others because during the whole fiasco he would leave for a few days then return with a new agenda and every time there was change it was the same thing again. I do not know who he talked to or what he talked about during these trips but it was common knowledge he was meeting with western agents. I am not the cia nor kgb so I do not have recordings nor youtube videos to share with you. The answers are there for those who can put facts together and draw inferences or you can just believe what the news tells you to believe..the choice is yours.

"Raffi made it very clear he is taking orders from others because he would leave for a few days then return with a new agenda"
So the fact that he said come back tomorrow and I'll tell you what we should do was not only proof that he was taking directions from someone above, but that the someone was America? I mean do you not see the absurdity of that assumption? How is that proof of anything? Not only are you taking the implausible leap from "he didn't decide on the spot" to "he was going to take directions", but then of course you jump to "he was taking those directions from the US"
To most people, the more logical answer was that he was too indecisive to make a snap decision on the spot in front of the crowd (like he should have), and had to go home, and discuss it with his people.

"but it was common knowledge he was meeting with western agents"
Common knowledge to who? can you please explain and give me sources of people who say this is common knowledge. Because this is literally the first time I have heard this and I have discussed those events to death from every angle with a lot of different people

"or you can just believe what the news tells you to believe"
again what news? I assume you mean the US news? whose telling me these things. lol It's just basic interpretation of the facts in front of me. Nobody has to tell me anything for me not to take these implausible leaps of faith that have no justification or any basis in reality.


You're entire assumption is a conspiracy theory for lack of better words. Can I foresee a situation where the US seeks out candidates with foreign policies that favor its interests, and does its best to support those candidates? Maybe, (to me this would be something any country might do) But there's a big BIG gap from that to he is a US agent planted there to do what's best for America, and not Armenia

To me the guy is irrationally nationalistic and idealistic and on the two issues the US cares about the MOST: settlement of Karabakh & the Turkish protocols, he is the worst candidate of them all for US interests because of his strict Dashnak views. So in whose reality is this guy serving US interests?

Is it because he is just not willing to serve every single last Russian interest? is that it? Is that what makes him a US spy in your eyes?

[Vrej1915]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

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[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

You know Mher that guy that you so much hate and rightfully so (LTP) was saying and doing exactly the same things Raffi is saying and doing now. You do not have to be a genius to see the correlations and to conclude that politicians are liars. Raffi will do and say anything to get elected just like LTP and he will break his promises in the exact same way. The problem with your line of reasoning is that you are saying we should believe Raffi because there is no hard evidence that he is a puppet. Hard evidence most likely exists but as you saw what happened to the wiki leaks source....such sources risk a lot. The CIA or MI8 is not going to come out and announce that they support Raffi because he does what they want him to do. You need to look for trends, circumstantial evidence, you need to talk to people who know things. There was not much direct evidence that 911 was an inside job but there is not much doubt that it was. By being observant, using rationality to draw inferences based on circumstantial evidence..you can get a fairly good idea about the person in question. Good leaders do not leave the country at a moment of crises to make up their mind about what to do next(as he did during the last election and its after mass). If you are your own man and you make your own decisions you can consult with others but like you said earlier "why leave the country"? Most likely is that he knew he was being spied on and that the people he was going to talk to and things he was going to discuss would be used against him so he had to go to a secure location. This is circumstantial evidence but it makes a lot of sense. When politicians do strange things (like leave the country when leaders are needed the most) people have every right to be suspicious of their actions and intent. Neither Raffi nor CIA are going to give you the evidence you seek so if that is what you are willing to make your decision on then you will always be mislead and used.

[Mher]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

You know Mher that guy that you so much hate and rightfully so (LTP) was saying and doing exactly the same things Raffi is saying and doing now. You do not have to be a genius to see the correlations and to conclude that politicians are liars. Raffi will do and say anything to get elected just like LTP and he will break his promises in the exact same way. The problem with your line of reasoning is that you are saying we should believe Raffi because there is no hard evidence that he is a puppet. Hard evidence most likely exists but as you saw what happened to the wiki leaks source....such sources risk a lot. The CIA or MI8 is not going to come out and announce that they support Raffi because he does what they want him to do. You need to look for trends, circumstantial evidence, you need to talk to people who know things. There was not much direct evidence that 911 was an inside job but there is not much doubt that it was. By being observant, using rationality to draw inferences based on circumstantial evidence..you can get a fairly good idea about the person in question. Good leaders do not leave the country at a moment of crises to make up their mind about what to do next(as he did during the last election and its after mass). If you are your own man and you make your own decisions you can consult with others but like you said earlier "why leave the country"? Most likely is that he knew he was being spied on and that the people he was going to talk to and things he was going to discuss would be used against him so he had to go to a secure location. This is circumstantial evidence but it makes a lot of sense. When politicians do strange things (like leave the country when leaders are needed the most) people have every right to be suspicious of their actions and intent. Neither Raffi nor CIA are going to give you the evidence you seek so if that is what you are willing to make your decision on then you will always be mislead and used.

once you go into the 911 inside job stuff, its hard to take your positions on anything else seriously. Honestly, there are about ten fallacies in your argument just in that one paragraph, but like I said, after the inside job stuff, its apparent that we are living in different universes and there is no point in continuing the discussion.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

once you go into the 911 inside job stuff, its hard to take your positions on anything else seriously. Honestly, there are about ten fallacies in your argument just in that one paragraph, but like I said, after the inside job stuff, its apparent that we are living in different universes and there is no point in continuing the discussion.

No we live in the same universe regardless of if you or I want to or not. The problem is you see it through the eyes of the mainstream media whose job is to make you see things that are not there and to make not see things that are there. You need to learn to think for yourself and do your own research. Do not believe me nor anyone else. Just use your head and your eyes to decipher the world around you.

[londontsi]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

This may seem off topic.

However anybody following politics in Hayastan should not find it off topic.

Apologies for comparing ourselves with Africa.

.