Elections in Armenia

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Just so we are clear. Are you saying that those 100,000 people, who you say are demonstrating against the current government, could not find a way to voice their anger. If each one of them signed a petition and sent copies of that petition to all the international news agencies, embassies and governments, there is no way that that could be suppressed. There is always a better way. In a country that holds almost 2 million people. 100,000 is only 5%. Even if 35% of the population is on Levon's side, they are still a minority. Not being happy with the current circumstances does not give any right to any group of people to destroy property and act in an animalistic fashion.

I repeat, there are many ways to get your voice heard. There is no country in the world, that would allow unrest in it's cities and allow the people who oppose the current government run a mock.

To give you another viewpoint. My mother passed the opera everyday at least 4 times a day. She has stated that the protesters where lighting fires in the square and drinking heavily to fight the cold. The police where not beating them. They were trying there best to keep the protesters from getting too out of hand. My mother is a very educated and honest person. I have no reason to doubt her words. There is no country in the civilized world that would allow total upheaval of it's people. If they wanted to silence the protesters I don't think they would have been allowed to camp there for 9 days. I don't disagree that the current government is not liable for this situation. But I am sure that they where not the ones looting and destroying a part of the city. Burning people's cars that cannot afford to replace them. Destroying shops that not only belong to the rich, but employ workers as well. That's a great idea we want jobs and industry for employment and we think the way of getting there is destroying. Yeah no excuse. Sorry.

Umm, if 53% of the population who voted did so for Serge and 47% of the voting population voted for opponents, then its a lot more than 100,000 that are not supporting Serge.

We do not know who destroyed what or who started what. Depending on who you speak to and who reported it, the story is in conflict. The confrontation occurred at Liberty Square and in front of the French Embassy. The whole city was not in chaos.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

You are a stupid retard, I didn't resort to calling you names, the bottomline is that everything Armenian has stated thus far is true, my family in Armenia can vouch for it. Second of all, you dumb motherxxxxer, you are squating under the protection of the western state, you are not in Armenia as we are communicating with each other, but my family and friends are, they will have to rear the brunt of your idiotic chants of "rebellion" in Southern California, not you and your band of muppet babies. The reality is that you are taking one "accused" criminal down from power and putting in LTP, a lier, a corrupt politician, and a entity that has advocated division and the return of Artsahk to the administrative control of Baku. He made promises of droping genocide recognition just for open diplomacy. His candidacy was filled with corruption and it was under his leadership that Armenia plunged into economic meltdown. I don't know, maybe if the "opposition" leader was a fresh face, I would maybe, just maybe, entertain the idea of revolution, but again, Armenia does not have the cusion, if you are so stupid and blind to realize that you are not dealing with European states that value human rights, but dealing with barbaric states like Turkey and Azerbaijan that don't recognize any international standard or entity as a authority, I don't know what else to tell you. As we speak they are drafting plans to invade Armenia, as we speak they know that eventually, due to the economic collapse this will most likly bring, Armenians will be powerless to stop invasion. How can you fund a military when you don't have a functioning economy? How can you run a military operation if the government can not gurantee absolute control? You are truly and blind and mesmormized by "revolution".

You know what revolution will bring? Another ten years of suffering, you are going back to the dark ages, no progressiion, it is all going to xxxx, God forgive you.

Virgil, how old were you when Armenia regained its independence?

For the last time, I am not an LTP supporter. But, when he became the first leader of the Republic, the Republic was already in shambles.

Nor am I promoting violence of any fashion. Funny how you overlook Armenian's harmful irresponsible rants about the necessity of civil war and/or totalitarian rule, the tolerance of censorship and the reasonableness of punishing people without any form of due process.

How do those ideals help your relatives?

Get out of your pajamas, back away from the desktop, get on your bicycle and go to the library.

Stop putting the egg before the chicken. And all the rhetoric about corrution and lying can equally be attributed to Kocharyan as it could LTP. So that does not substantiate anything.

[Noosh]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

ok. I was not giving actual results. What I was trying to say is that if all the arm twisting, beating and blackmailing that they said was going on, i am making an educated guess. LTP got 17% of the vote if you add to that a very optimistic 18% for the voters that wanted to vote for him and could not. I guesstimated 35%, which is still a minority. Do you see my point? However corrupt and twisted you try to imagin the elections there is no way they could get away with such a big difference.

What would happen is everyone who voted for John Carry in the last US presidential elections took to the steet in protest. How do you think the American government would handle it? What pandamonium.

And as to the place of the protests. The protest where taking place in the main square (herabarag) and the opera. The police tried to dispurse the crowd, which then poceeded to gather on Mashtots and the steet I know as prospet. My uncles apt is on prospect. So I know what went on and where, I just cannot for the life of me understand why and what good it did?

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Land of Confusion, Genesis. http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=hxx7uXesq7Q

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Land of Confusion, Genesis. http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=hxx7uXesq7Q

Are you one of the muppets in that video?

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Beginning of riot organized by Levon Ter-Petrosyan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_QWHA-sxW8

People about riots organized by Levon Ter-Petrosyan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGLZj...eature=related

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Virgil, du ur es?? Armenian is the one talking about civil war. Esh.

Are you the patriot from Pasadena, Pacoima or Pomona in his pajamas. Yes, aroun un em, barkam un em Hayastani mech. Im metz papa mamaytz gom Martuni aprela. Inch es khosum.

Once again, the Axis of Stupidity rears its ugly head.

First of all you, don't worry where I am. I am content with the status quo because I know better, I know that Armenia does not have the political and economic cusion to deal with bloody and brutal revolution.

Second of all, don't quote Armenian out of context, his analogy of a civil war was used as a response to the idiocy of "united Armenians", the problem is exactly that, you and I, we are examples of how a "united Armenian people" does not exist, in any people, there clearly exists two sides to the coin. This is what Armenian meant that a "civil war always occurs".

However, the question is not about "civil war", this has absolutly nothing to do with "civil war", this entire scenario is a foreign coup. The reality is that if you were to take Armenia and compare the governments measure of democracy to any neighbor in the region, you would see that it is indeed the most democratic. In fact, in all measures of performance, economic growth, level of education, and etc ... Armenian would hands down beat its neighbors. Therefore, this entire bogus crux of using the "lack of democracy" as a primise to cause chaos in Armenia as a excuse for "civil war" is just a bunch of bull. If any state requires a civil war it is Turkey, if any state requires a new leader it is Azerbaijan, and if any state should consider a new direction it is Georgia. There exists no reason to derail Armenia, when in fact the state has shown significant progress compared to the states in the region.

Now, conversly, what would revolution bring? Absolutly nothing, I can not even say that the elected leader is a asset, how can you even consider LTP a competant leader versus Serge? He tried to sell out the state, he tried to sell out his people, and he was ousted for Gods sake, there exists no reason to bring LTP to power other than the fact that this is all political coup orchestrated by foreign powers and backers.

And third, you are a big fat lier, if your family lived in Martuni then you would not be calling for armed conflict. I find it highly dubious that you would opt for revolution when the threat of invasion and occupation of land and villages in Artsahk could become a reality for your family. And what the xxxx do you think they will do once they break the line and invade Artsahk? They will rape, kill, and burn all the Armenian villagers.

Virgil, how old were you when Armenia regained its independence?

For the last time, I am not an LTP supporter. But, when he became the first leader of the Republic, the Republic was already in shambles.

Nor am I promoting violence of any fashion. Funny how you overlook Armenian's harmful irresponsible rants about the necessity of civil war and/or totalitarian rule, the tolerance of censorship and the reasonableness of punishing people without any form of due process.

How do those ideals help your relatives?

Get out of your pajamas, back away from the desktop, get on your bicycle and go to the library.

Stop putting the egg before the chicken. And all the rhetoric about corrution and lying can equally be attributed to Kocharyan as it could LTP. So that does not substantiate anything.

Don't worry how old I am, I am old enough and well read enough to smell a political coup. As a born and breed Armenian-American, this kind of political instability promoted by western states is topic discussion in every classroom and every educational institution of the United States. We know our methods of exporting revolution very well, however, we never consider the micro people we affect, I do, because I have family and roots in Armenia. The last thing those poor people need is a armed revolution and instability, for God's sake, look at the trend of civil war in Africa and Latin America, all have roots in coup and counter coups, this cycle is a never ending cycle.

Freaky, don't back down from your stance. You were a LTP supporter, if you did not support LTP, you should have just backed away from the topic. Neither, I nor Armenian (Or anyone for that matter) was ignorant and blind to the accusations of corruption, but the realities of corruptoin can only be solved through time, through educating a generation as to why the merits of democracy and property rights should be upheld. Armed revolution will only lead to economic depression, will only lead to a century of civil war, again, in a region where your neighbors have historic hostilities towards your state, armed revolution and destabilization of government is the equivalent of suicide.

Furthermore, the government of Armenia may be corrupt, but through this corruption the wheels of economic and political development are still turning. You read history books on the development of the American democracy and they will lie to you and provide a view of the early American empire as one of complete transparency, but it is a lie. Is it not a suprise to the that the very same invididuals, instramental to the victory of the Revolutionary War, were the same heads of government post Revolutionary War? Is not then suprising that the same turn of events occured in Armenia, that all volunteers and soldiers of the Artsahk War became heads of government of Armenia? Hmm... conincidence? I don't think so, the same primative collusion of government occured two hundred years ago and this same primative residue of developing democracy will occur in Armenia. The reality is that in any democracy, the first twenty or so years, are always the worst, it is in these years that the democracy will either take root or fail miserable. And it fails miserable because you have discontent among the populations because economically the state is just beginning to flourish. Again, Revolutionary War, the American government faced numerous coups inspired by British agents, which eventually lead to the War of 1812. Wages were not being paid, people were discontent, most wanted to rebel, but it fell onto Washington to keep the people together and ask them to make sacrifices for the nation, which they did or else, most early Americans wanted to rebell against the newly formed government.

Lastly, how must longer are you going to resort to antics and showmenship? Are you honestly telling me that armed conflict will provide a better future? Are you ignoring the strong economic growth of the last few years? Do you think that LTP will provide a better solution? Have you asked the leader of the frenzied mob how looting and rioting is going to develop the economy? Use your heads for once, this entire fiasco was well orchestrated, you just fell for it and have only weakened a nation, we are all losers, there is no winner here.

[Armanen]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

George Soros Meets With Armenian Non-Profits in New York

Date: 10/1/2007

Contact: AGBU Press Office
Phone: 212.319.6383
Fax: 212.319.6507
Email: [email protected]



On Wednesday, September 19, 2007, world-renowned philanthropist and financier George Soros met with six leading Armenian American non-profit organizations to exchange opinions on new innovative ways to build civil society in Armenia. The roundtable luncheon and discussion was organized by the Armenian General Benevolent Union (AGBU) and was hosted by AGBU President Berge Setrakian. The event took place at Manhattan's University Club and included representatives from the Armenian American Wellness Center, Armenia Fund USA, Children of Armenia Fund, Fund for Armenian Relief, the Izmirlian Fund, and philanthropist Jeffrey Acopian.

After brief introductions, George Soros spoke candidly about his hope that the roundtable would aid in the free exchange of ideas about what can be done in Armenia to strengthen civil society, an overarching goal for Soros' non-profit organization, the Open Society Institute (OSI). Soros underlined his belief that establishing good cooperation with diasporan Armenian organizations was important for OSI to accomplish its work in Armenia. "Our constituency is Armenia's society in general, and I know the diaspora has influence in this regard," he said.

OSI and the Soros foundations network-which began in 1984-spent more than $400 million worldwide in 2006 on improving policy and helping people to live in open, democratic societies. OSI works on issues ranging from human rights, to access to education, to freedom of information. Since 1997, OSI Assistance Foundation-Armenia, the Armenia-based Soros foundation, has spent $20 million in developing grassroots programs for Armenians.

Soros introduced the Executive Director of OSI Armenia, Larisa Minasyan, who elaborated on the media, arts, education and justice programs that the organization has been able to successfully implement. She explained that the organization received funding from the British and Dutch governments, in addition to annual funds from Soros' Armenian foundation. "Our goal is to establish democracy in a diverse way," Minasian said. "We are trying to bring systematic change in the various fields and we are achieving success in different ways."

OSI Armenia board member, Lucig Danielian outlined some of the objectives of the organization and their approach to the problems facing Armenia, "We feel it is about empowering people and giving them the skills and the jumpstart, and the funding when required, encouraging change from below."

Vigen Sargsyan, Board member of OSI Armenia and the World Bank Yerevan, explained the barriers to democratic reform in Armenia via the media, "The media [in Armenia] today, suffers from homogeneity and it is state-dominated, which doesn't allow for alternatives."

Various individuals spoke about the interconnection of democracy and economic development, and how the role of each could contribute to a sustainable and strong Armenia.

The frank discussion touched upon the problems of migration from Armenia, the sensitivity of Armenia's relationships with its neighbors, the continuing economic blockade of Armenia's borders, and the question of corruption in Armenia's public and private sectors.

Soros acknowledged that the Armenian scenario is unique, since a strong, diverse diaspora can contribute to reform in Armenia, which is not the case in other Eurasian nations. He concluded on a hopeful note, sharing a personal anecdote about his own native country of Hungary, which experienced a short period of freedom in the 1950's only to be quickly suppressed by Soviet forces. "I will tell you that the 1956 Hungarian Revolution came into fruition in 1989. No one could have imagined that," Soros said.

AGBU President Berge Setrakian thanked Soros for his participation in the exchange and shared some of his personal thoughts. "This process is only beginning and we will certainly continue this dialogue. Hearing about the successes of the Soros foundation in its efforts to build civil society in Armenia, we are encouraged to explore new possibilities. As the world's leading Armenian non-profit organization, it is AGBU's responsibility to seek out effective ways to help Armenians and Armenia become a strong and stable nation," Setrakian said.

http://www.agbu.org/pressoffice/article.asp?ID=444

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

George Soros Meets With Armenian Non-Profits in New York

Date: 10/1/2007

Contact: AGBU Press Office
Phone: 212.319.6383
Fax: 212.319.6507
Email: [email protected]



On Wednesday, September 19, 2007, world-renowned philanthropist and financier George Soros met with six leading Armenian American non-profit organizations to exchange opinions on new innovative ways to build civil society in Armenia. The roundtable luncheon and discussion was organized by the Armenian General Benevolent Union (AGBU) and was hosted by AGBU President Berge Setrakian. The event took place at Manhattan's University Club and included representatives from the Armenian American Wellness Center, Armenia Fund USA, Children of Armenia Fund, Fund for Armenian Relief, the Izmirlian Fund, and philanthropist Jeffrey Acopian.

After brief introductions, George Soros spoke candidly about his hope that the roundtable would aid in the free exchange of ideas about what can be done in Armenia to strengthen civil society, an overarching goal for Soros' non-profit organization, the Open Society Institute (OSI). Soros underlined his belief that establishing good cooperation with diasporan Armenian organizations was important for OSI to accomplish its work in Armenia. "Our constituency is Armenia's society in general, and I know the diaspora has influence in this regard," he said.

OSI and the Soros foundations network-which began in 1984-spent more than $400 million worldwide in 2006 on improving policy and helping people to live in open, democratic societies. OSI works on issues ranging from human rights, to access to education, to freedom of information. Since 1997, OSI Assistance Foundation-Armenia, the Armenia-based Soros foundation, has spent $20 million in developing grassroots programs for Armenians.

Soros introduced the Executive Director of OSI Armenia, Larisa Minasyan, who elaborated on the media, arts, education and justice programs that the organization has been able to successfully implement. She explained that the organization received funding from the British and Dutch governments, in addition to annual funds from Soros' Armenian foundation. "Our goal is to establish democracy in a diverse way," Minasian said. "We are trying to bring systematic change in the various fields and we are achieving success in different ways."

OSI Armenia board member, Lucig Danielian outlined some of the objectives of the organization and their approach to the problems facing Armenia, "We feel it is about empowering people and giving them the skills and the jumpstart, and the funding when required, encouraging change from below."

Vigen Sargsyan, Board member of OSI Armenia and the World Bank Yerevan, explained the barriers to democratic reform in Armenia via the media, "The media [in Armenia] today, suffers from homogeneity and it is state-dominated, which doesn't allow for alternatives."

Various individuals spoke about the interconnection of democracy and economic development, and how the role of each could contribute to a sustainable and strong Armenia.

The frank discussion touched upon the problems of migration from Armenia, the sensitivity of Armenia's relationships with its neighbors, the continuing economic blockade of Armenia's borders, and the question of corruption in Armenia's public and private sectors.

Soros acknowledged that the Armenian scenario is unique, since a strong, diverse diaspora can contribute to reform in Armenia, which is not the case in other Eurasian nations. He concluded on a hopeful note, sharing a personal anecdote about his own native country of Hungary, which experienced a short period of freedom in the 1950's only to be quickly suppressed by Soviet forces. "I will tell you that the 1956 Hungarian Revolution came into fruition in 1989. No one could have imagined that," Soros said.

AGBU President Berge Setrakian thanked Soros for his participation in the exchange and shared some of his personal thoughts. "This process is only beginning and we will certainly continue this dialogue. Hearing about the successes of the Soros foundation in its efforts to build civil society in Armenia, we are encouraged to explore new possibilities. As the world's leading Armenian non-profit organization, it is AGBU's responsibility to seek out effective ways to help Armenians and Armenia become a strong and stable nation," Setrakian said.

http://www.agbu.org/pressoffice/article.asp?ID=444

And, your point is?

[Virgil]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

George Soros Meets With Armenian Non-Profits in New York

Date: 10/1/2007

Contact: AGBU Press Office
Phone: 212.319.6383
Fax: 212.319.6507
Email: [email protected]



On Wednesday, September 19, 2007, world-renowned philanthropist and financier George Soros met with six leading Armenian American non-profit organizations to exchange opinions on new innovative ways to build civil society in Armenia. The roundtable luncheon and discussion was organized by the Armenian General Benevolent Union (AGBU) and was hosted by AGBU President Berge Setrakian. The event took place at Manhattan's University Club and included representatives from the Armenian American Wellness Center, Armenia Fund USA, Children of Armenia Fund, Fund for Armenian Relief, the Izmirlian Fund, and philanthropist Jeffrey Acopian.

After brief introductions, George Soros spoke candidly about his hope that the roundtable would aid in the free exchange of ideas about what can be done in Armenia to strengthen civil society, an overarching goal for Soros' non-profit organization, the Open Society Institute (OSI). Soros underlined his belief that establishing good cooperation with diasporan Armenian organizations was important for OSI to accomplish its work in Armenia. "Our constituency is Armenia's society in general, and I know the diaspora has influence in this regard," he said.

OSI and the Soros foundations network-which began in 1984-spent more than $400 million worldwide in 2006 on improving policy and helping people to live in open, democratic societies. OSI works on issues ranging from human rights, to access to education, to freedom of information. Since 1997, OSI Assistance Foundation-Armenia, the Armenia-based Soros foundation, has spent $20 million in developing grassroots programs for Armenians.

Soros introduced the Executive Director of OSI Armenia, Larisa Minasyan, who elaborated on the media, arts, education and justice programs that the organization has been able to successfully implement. She explained that the organization received funding from the British and Dutch governments, in addition to annual funds from Soros' Armenian foundation. "Our goal is to establish democracy in a diverse way," Minasian said. "We are trying to bring systematic change in the various fields and we are achieving success in different ways."

OSI Armenia board member, Lucig Danielian outlined some of the objectives of the organization and their approach to the problems facing Armenia, "We feel it is about empowering people and giving them the skills and the jumpstart, and the funding when required, encouraging change from below."

Vigen Sargsyan, Board member of OSI Armenia and the World Bank Yerevan, explained the barriers to democratic reform in Armenia via the media, "The media [in Armenia] today, suffers from homogeneity and it is state-dominated, which doesn't allow for alternatives."

Various individuals spoke about the interconnection of democracy and economic development, and how the role of each could contribute to a sustainable and strong Armenia.

The frank discussion touched upon the problems of migration from Armenia, the sensitivity of Armenia's relationships with its neighbors, the continuing economic blockade of Armenia's borders, and the question of corruption in Armenia's public and private sectors.

Soros acknowledged that the Armenian scenario is unique, since a strong, diverse diaspora can contribute to reform in Armenia, which is not the case in other Eurasian nations. He concluded on a hopeful note, sharing a personal anecdote about his own native country of Hungary, which experienced a short period of freedom in the 1950's only to be quickly suppressed by Soviet forces. "I will tell you that the 1956 Hungarian Revolution came into fruition in 1989. No one could have imagined that," Soros said.

AGBU President Berge Setrakian thanked Soros for his participation in the exchange and shared some of his personal thoughts. "This process is only beginning and we will certainly continue this dialogue. Hearing about the successes of the Soros foundation in its efforts to build civil society in Armenia, we are encouraged to explore new possibilities. As the world's leading Armenian non-profit organization, it is AGBU's responsibility to seek out effective ways to help Armenians and Armenia become a strong and stable nation," Setrakian said.

http://www.agbu.org/pressoffice/article.asp?ID=444

Soros basically wants to turn Armenia into a liberal circus state, disgusting. That entire run down on "diversity", he should shove it up the ass of the Turks, not the Armenians, xxxxing hypocrit.