The Western Armenian Language Thread

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

How are Western Armenians last names transliterated using Russian? I know Eastern Armenian names are transliterated "ya-en" so I'm assuming Western Armenian "ian" is the same way.

[truAnatolian]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

We should refer to Ancient Text to establish a single standard variant of the Armenian Language....... Western Armenian has much Turkish influence and Easter Armenian was warped during the soviet Era.

[Federate]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

Yea, it's Greek. Ever heard of the word melancholia or mélancolie?

I checked out the etymology, very interesting how we construct our words to make "black bile" mean mélancolie!

You know this is where we should say Eastern Armenian is easier and more straightforward than Western Armenian. In EA, almost all the words are written just as they are pronounced.

For WAs, most is written the way it is pronounced as well. Except we pronounce things differently than EAs. But I will concede that WAs often find it a little tough to distinguish between Դ and Թ (both pronounced 't'), Գ and Ք (both pronounced 'k'), Բ and Փ (both pronounced 'p'), Չ and Ջ (both pronounced 'tch') and Հ and Յ (both usually pronounced 'h') Nevertheless, we manage

Արեւմտահայերէնը ունի շատ հարուստ, աննման գրական անցեալ: Ես ալ կաշխատիմ բարելաւել արեւմտահայերէնս: (Ճիշտ ասա՞մ: )

Շատ ճիշտ է Լուսին ճան Բայց կ'աշխատիմ ապաթարց կ'առնէ։

[Lucin]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

Yeah, WAs predominantly use melan for ink. Tanak (թանաք) is present and right in WA but it is rarely used from what i've seen. The average person knows melan. Չէի գիտեր որ յունարէն է «մելան» բառը բայց հիմա որ գիտեմ այս տեղեկութիւնը, պիտի փորձեմ աւելի թանաք գործածել։

Yea, it's Greek. Ever heard of the word melancholia or mélancolie?

Actually Lucin jan, the confusion wouldn't be that bad Թանաք would be pronounced tanak and դանակ would be pronounced tanag. The Կ in Western Armenian has the same pronunciation as Գ in Eastern Armenian. Of course, WAs and EAs write all their words the same way, barring the exception I gave above about foreign words. It's only a matter of pronouncing it

You know this is where we should say Eastern Armenian is easier and more straightforward than Western Armenian. In EA, almost all the words are written just as they are pronounced.

Ես ալ շատ հետաքրքրական կը գտնեմ տարբերութիւնները եւ կը ցանկամ բարելաւել արեւելահայերէնս ու այսպիսի քննարկումներ շատ կ'օգնեն ինծի եւ բոլոր անոնց որ պիտի կարդան հետագային։

Շնորհակալութիւն։

Արեւմտահայերէնը ունի շատ հարուստ, աննման գրական անցեալ: Ես ալ կաշխատիմ բարելաւել արեւմտահայերէնս: (Ճիշտ ասա՞մ: )

[Federate]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

That's funny indeed. We say "գդալ"/ ktal , tkal would be close to tkel/ թքել (to spit).

Oh, I meant glass as in glass of water or wine for example. In Eastern Armenian, we say բաժակ.

Oh my bad. WAs say բաժակ as well. Just the pronunciation is different (pajag instead of bajak).

My goodness… I had no idea that you refer to ink as melan in western Armenian. Melan is Greek, by the way. Can you guess why I asked about this particular word ink as well as knife?

Yeah, WAs predominantly use melan for ink. Tanak (թանաք) is present and right in WA but it is rarely used from what i've seen. The average person knows melan. Չէի գիտեր որ յունարէն է «մելան» բառը բայց հիմա որ գիտեմ այս տեղեկութիւնը, պիտի փորձեմ աւելի թանաք գործածել։

First of all, I had no idea you say melan in the Western dialect. For the record, in eastern Armenian we use the word "թանաք" for ink. Then I thought WAs may be pronouncing the word knife "դանակ" as tanak and then the word ink, tanak as well. So how can they basically distinguish the two words? It just confused me, not knowing you use melan, instead of թանաք.

Actually Lucin jan, the confusion wouldn't be that bad Թանաք would be pronounced tanak and դանակ would be pronounced tanag. The Կ in Western Armenian has the same pronunciation as Գ in Eastern Armenian. Of course, WAs and EAs write all their words the same way, barring the exception I gave above about foreign words. It's only a matter of pronouncing it

Իհարկէ: Շնորհակալութիւն:

Շատ հետաքրքիր է իմանալ թէ տարբերութիւնները արեւելահայերէնի եւ արեւմտահայերէնի միջեւ ինչպէ՞ս են ստեղծւել հիմնականաօրէն նաեւ ո՞րն է գրաբարին աւելի մօտ լեզւաբանօրէն:

Ես ալ շատ հետաքրքրական կը գտնեմ տարբերութիւնները եւ կը ցանկամ բարելաւել արեւելահայերէնս ու այսպիսի քննարկումներ շատ կ'օգնեն ինծի եւ բոլոր անոնց որ պիտի կարդան հետագային։

Շնորհակալութիւն։

[Lucin]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

Yep, there is. The pronuncitation of the Eastern Armenian “ջ” = the pronunciation of the Western Armenian “ճ”.

The way "ջ" is pronounced in Western Armenian, is about the same way Eastern and Western Armenians pronounce "չ". There is no difference between the pronunciation of "չ" and "ջ" in Western Armenian.

As for where WAs use the letter "ջ", it's everywhere EAs use it except the pronunciation changes. For example, WAs write ջուր (water) just like EAs except they pronounce it differently. So ջուր in WA is pronounced "tchur".

But then you may ask, like your given example, why WAs would write Ատրպեճան instead of Ադրբեջան. That's only the case with foreign words or basically proper nouns that don't come from the Armenian language. Then WAs spell it the way they hear it.

I see...

Spoon = դգալ (tkal) N.B. You'll find it funny when you compare this to EA

That's funny indeed. We say "գդալ"/ ktal , tkal would be close to tkel/ թքել (to spit).

Knife = դանակ (tanag)

Glass = ապակի (abagi)

Oh, I meant glass as in glass of water or wine for example. In Eastern Armenian, we say բաժակ.

Ink = մելան (melan)

My goodness… I had no idea that you refer to ink as melan in western Armenian. Melan is Greek, by the way. Can you guess why I asked about this particular word ink as well as knife?

First of all, I had no idea you say melan in the Western dialect. For the record, in eastern Armenian we use the word "թանաք" for ink. Then I thought WAs may be pronouncing the word knife "դանակ" as tanak and then the word ink, tanak as well. So how can they basically distinguish the two words? It just confused me, not knowing you use melan, instead of թանաք.

Hope this helped Lucin jan, if you have more please don't be shy to ask because it's beneficial to everyone and i'll be glad to respond as much as I can

Իհարկէ: Շնորհակալութիւն:

Շատ հետաքրքիր է իմանալ թէ տարբերութիւնները արեւելահայերէնի եւ արեւմտահայերէնի միջեւ ինչպէ՞ս են ստեղծւել հիմնականաօրէն նաեւ ո՞րն է գրաբարին աւելի մօտ լեզւաբանօրէն:

[Federate]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

Is there a difference in pronunciation between “ճ” and “ջ” in Western Armenian? I have noticed many times that the letter “ճ” is used instead of “ջ” in western Armenian, for example; ճան (while in eastern it is “ջան”) Ադրպեճան (in eastern “Ադրբեջան”). Why? So when/ where is “ջ” used then? And is the pronunciation of these two letters different than Eastern Armenian?

Yep, there is. The pronuncitation of the Eastern Armenian “ջ” = the pronunciation of the Western Armenian “ճ”.

The way "ջ" is pronounced in Western Armenian, is about the same way Eastern and Western Armenians pronounce "չ". There is no difference between the pronunciation of "չ" and "ջ" in Western Armenian.

As for where WAs use the letter "ջ", it's everywhere EAs use it except the pronunciation changes. For example, WAs write ջուր (water) just like EAs except they pronounce it differently. So ջուր in WA is pronounced "tchur".

But then you may ask, like your given example, why WAs would write Ատրպեճան instead of Ադրբեջան. That's only the case with foreign words or basically proper nouns that don't come from the Armenian language. Then WAs spell it the way they hear it.

How do you write and spell the following words in Western Armenian; Spoon, knife, glass and ink.

Spoon = դգալ (tkal) N.B. You'll find it funny when you compare this to EA
Knife = դանակ (tanag)
Glass = ապակի (abagi)
Ink = մելան (melan)

Hope this helped Lucin jan, if you have more please don't be shy to ask because it's beneficial to everyone and i'll be glad to respond as much as I can

[Lucin]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

Is there a difference in pronunciation between “ճ” and “ջ” in Western Armenian? I have noticed many times that the letter “ճ” is used instead of “ջ” in western Armenian, for example; ճան (while in eastern it is “ջան”) Ադրպեճան (in eastern “Ադրբեջան”). Why? So when/ where is “ջ” used then? And is the pronunciation of these two letters different than Eastern Armenian?


How do you write and spell the following words in Western Armenian; Spoon, knife, glass and ink.

[Lucin]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

Lucin jan, I just made up the sentence so there is no context.

Take a look at this sentence and tell what is the purpose of the "...":

«Միայն ուրախութեան շարժարիթի մասին հրապարակուիլը բաւարար կ'ըլլայ. մարդիկ կ'իմանան, որ իմ կամ քու սիրասուն զաւկին կամ թոռան առաջին տարեդարձն է, աղջկան հարսանիքն է, եղբօրս տղուն մկրտութիւնն է...:»

Look, «…» is not a separate/ single punctuation. Here we have a combination of two marks, չակերտներ (« ») and կախման կէտեր (...).

One of the main usages of չակերտներ is clearly for quotations or to quote someone's words which is the case in your example. Some more examples of this particular usage: Նա ասաց. «Ես հայուհի եմ»: or «Ուրախ եմ ձեզ ընդունելու»,- նշեց Նախագահը: (Note the punctuation used before or after the quotes.)

Now when կախման կէտեր (…) is used. It means that the speaker's/ writer's words are not finished maybe because of emotion, or surprise or hesitation or sometimes the writer simply leaves to the reader the task of imagining the rest of the story.

*******************

Here are some other common usages of (« ») besides quotation, in Armenian:

Սրահը «պայթեց» ծապերից:

«Ասպարէզ»-ը հաղորդեց.

Թուրքերը «ճշմարիտ» ազգ են:

«Մեսրոպ Մաշտոց»-ի շքանշանը նրան յանձնեցին:


Can you see in above examples how it (« ») can be used in different contexts conveying different signification/ usage?

**********

And I have some questions regarding Western Armenian pronunciation that I'll ask you guys, in coming days.

[ara87]

Re: The Western Armenian Language Thread

thanks,

Chamur - Never heard anyone use this. Everyone says "tsekh"

yeah, i looked it up, it is turkish (çamur) i think i must have picked it up from my dads grandparents or something

Aghpar
Aghparig (not Apareek) - This is used when you want to be cute with a child and nothing else.

i had always used yeghpayr, my brother used to call me aghparig but pronounced it "apareek" when he was little, which is why i spelled it that way

Peace -LOL this is a funny word...a good portion of people don't even know what it means.

lol, i realized that a while ago, any clue on where it came from?

Pari yegar/pan me che - These are used much more than "khntrem" from what I've seen and heard around. I use "pan me che" more than those two for sure. Nevertheless, "khntrem" remains the most respectful way of replying.

Yeah i refrain from "pari yegar" b/c if someone ever uses it he goes on a rant how it literally is "your welcome" and how it doesn't make sense and why "khntrem" and "pan me che" are better