Armenian cognates w/other languages

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

and the Latin "regina" which is queen in English

Wow, I didn't notice the gyn root in Latin "regina" before, thanks.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

Here's a comprhensive comparison in tabular form... very convenient.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia...tic_comparison

Thanks for that, it is quite useful.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

First you say the following:

Lucin, chill for a sec. Did say that it was a loan word from Turkish? No. If you bothered to look at my previous post, or other people's posts,

And then this:

you'd see that the word "Turkish" was a just a header for what language the foreign word is from.

You are just contradicting yourself.

In my last post I have "navalis" from latin, as a cognate for "nav." Am i claiming we took this word from Latin? (no). For all we know Latin took it from Armenian, or we both took it from another source, all I was doing was pointing out the relation

The reader may not know what goes through your mind and how you make these connections unless you bother yourself and bring it clearly into words. By putting the header Turkish and then writing the Armenian word below, next to it, you implicitly imply that the origin/ root is Turkish. Perhaps putting Armenian/ Turkish as header would be less confusing and more accurate?

[ara87]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

The reader may not know what goes through your mind and how you make these connections unless you bother yourself and bring it clearly into words. By putting the header Turkish and then writing the Armenian word below, next to it, you implicitly imply that the origin/ root is Turkish. Perhaps putting Armenian/ Turkish as header would be less confusing and more accurate?

I guess changing the headers would help, but the thread is calls for cognates, which aren't loan words.

Wikipedia puts it best http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognate

English's "Night," German's "Nacht," and Spanish's "Noche," are cognates, b/c they share a common root. "Sushi," and "Igloo," however, while used in English, are imported words, with no roots within the English language, therefore are loan words, and not a cognates.

Btw, if we keep this thread going long enough, we can turn it into an organized archive for all non-loan words in Armenian that share cognates in other languages (even though this has already been done by Armenian linguists, it would be fun to see what we can come up with).

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

On a note for less obvious (but much deeper and potentially exceedingly insightful) cognates...

Have you folks ever heard of the concept of Nostratic languages? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic

I was having a discussion last night with my mom about the reconstructed Nostratic word for fist/palm of hand, "p'ayngo", and how it seems to have emerged as as Proto-Indo-European "Pnkwstis", ancient Uralic "Peyngo", Altaic "P'aynga".

In Indo-European languages, Pnkwstis became English "Fist", French "Poign", Armenian "Prunstk", from what I know...

Fist also seems to have produced, in Germanic languages, the words for five and finger. At least for five, it seems to make sense that pnkwstis (fist) emerged as Indo-European Penkwe (five) as some kind of pre-historic analogy of 5 member-ness.

I then wondered, what about the word "first" in English, and it's french cognate, "prem-ier", the roots of which seem to be related to the Armenian word for fist, Prunstk. Could Armenian be a key that would add words that denote the first ordinate, such as "first" in English or "Premier" in French as derivations from a root meaning fist?

Think about it, if you raise your thumb to make a thumbs up sign, you still make a fist with the rest of your fingers. Perhaps prehistoric folk didn't lift up their indexes to mean 1, but their thumb, and so "pnkwstis", or "fist" was a the sign for first.

It is interesting from a Nostratic point of view because in Turkish, an Altaic language, the word for "one" is Bir. Bir being quite similar to the surviving (though subjected to extensive apocope) root in "premier" in French.

Those of you who are interested in linguistics and shifts in pronunciation, or have questions regarding how plausible the shifts in pronunciation are that produce all these derivations from the archaic root word, in this case, "P'ayngo" or "Pnkwstis", feel free to ask, I'll try to stretch your minds in the domain of phonology. If you wish to continue a discussion of this, I'll move it to another thread.

[vasbourakan1]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

there are these two appellations of places which are very similar yet far away from each other : stonehenge in the u.k. and karahunch in armenia -yedtars posted some pictures of them recently- and represent almost the same thing at the same period of time in history. henge, hunch, can someone give any convincing explanation in what concerns the origin of these words, migration of people through the story and the link between these two places?

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

"hunch" in Carahunch/Karahundj could have the same root as the word "hnchel" to sing/to sound, derived from its Proto-Indo-European cognate "Kan", which possibly produces "Ganchel" in Armenian "to call"? Carahundj could've meant singing/sounding/calling stones.

For Stonehenge however, Middle English "henge" seems to descend from the same Germanic root from which hinge came from (the joints that allow your door to swing), which in itself is derived from the verb "to hang". The root in Indo-European for hang is Konk-. This root sounds similar to Kan, but refers to something very different.

In Armenian, Konk produces "Gakh" (final velar stop "k" becomes dissimilated from the initial one, alveolar nasal "n" becomes deleted, initial velar stop "g" is voiced from "k") from the root of the word "Gakhel". This is quite far removed from "hundj" from Carahunge and so I don't understand the connection Paris Herouni is trying to make between the names of Carahundj and Stonehenge at this point.

This is all theorizing in the end and I'm merely using the established scholarly understandings that I've so far learned about concerning Indo-European reconstructions. I prefer a sober approach to the matter and I'm not hellbent on making far-flung word associations even if at the surface they seem similar. I am ready to assume that the culture that created Karahundj did have an ancestrial connection with that which built Stonehenge, however the names for these structures came most probably at a later date. In Britain, you did not have Germanic language until the Anglo-Saxons. This occurred a few thousand of years after the completion of Stonehenge. The name Stonehenge is Germanic, we don't really know what the original culture who built Stonehenge had called it. By the same token, Armenians assigned the name Carahundj to their structure in Metsamor. We have no idea what the Metsamorians had called it.

The best we can do is notice how in both parts of the world, we find the word for "stone" as the first word in each of the names and perhaps extend this analysis to similar structures like (several) Callanish and Carnac megaliths.

It should be noted also that Karahundj in Armenia has other names too: Zorats Karer/Angelakot? These might be revealing too about what they have been historically called before Armenian language dominated the region. For more reference to megalithic structures across Europe and their names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_stone

[ara87]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

http://www.etymonline.com gives the literal meaning of stonehenge as "stone gallows." While the names may not be 100% related, I still think that Stonehenge, Karhundj, and all the other liths have a connection to one another

[vasbourakan1]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

thank's for your help and the links, Jgk3 and Ara87, merci

[womble]

Re: Armenian cognates w/other languages

otar - other, outer
ays, ayt, ayn - this, that, yon
arch - arch (latin for bear)
sharzhel (to move) - charge
hivand - heave... okay, now I'm getting carried away!