Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

[Siggie]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

I doubt men are going to be touching and grabbing her in the streets. While in a dance club, you will have men taking advantage of women there, both sober and drunk. I think it's pretty clear

Yeah, it's very clear and putting a winkie at the end doesn't make it cute.

You're correcting me? Women get groped at work, school, taking public transportation,etc.; you think it doesn't happen anywhere but the clubs?
No, clearly you know better what it is to be a woman, so by all means educate me as to the dangers of being a woman.

[gegev]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

...
Dressing modestly is a way to shield you from this vulgar mindset, it is a way to give yourself and your body respect. It is a way not to present your body as a tool, but as a respectable person.

I like this description.

[Mos]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

She won't go where men can grab her and touch her? You mean she won't ever be leaving the house then? No, wait that would allow men in still. I guess not in the company of men.

That might be the way you think, but it's not how all men think. Many do objectify and do not respect. Why not work on fixing that? Because we might end up at a burka when you find that the modest dressing doesn't end it.

I doubt men are going to be touching and grabbing her in the streets. While in a dance club, you will have men taking advantage of women there, both sober and drunk. I think it's pretty clear

And how do you fix a inherent mindset of society? Women are objectified a lot in Western society, seen as sex objects, something to 'conquer'. Rather women should be highly respected and valued as holders of the family, modest, and pure. This is something not coming from just a few conservative people but coming from our religion and the divine word of God in the Bible that lays this out.

Dressing modestly is a way to shield you from this vulgar mindset, it is a way to give yourself and your body respect. It is a way not to present your body as a tool, but as a respectable person.

[Siggie]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

But no one is saying that. Dressing modestly doesn't entail wearing a burka (in our culture at least). In many Armenian families, the daughter will be reprimanded if she goes out dressed very openly. She also won't be allowed to go to dances/clubs where men can grab her and touch her (these are the places where such women are taken advantage of, and regret for the rest of their life). These things have nothing to do with Taliban, they are normal customs of a traditional Armenian society, where women are respected and not objectified like they are in the West often. Women are to be respected as the holders of family, respected for their elegance and modesty, not viewed as a tool to be used then thrown away in order to use another such woman.

She won't go where men can grab her and touch her? You mean she won't ever be leaving the house then? No, wait that would allow men in still. I guess not in the company of men.

That might be the way you think, but it's not how all men think. Many do objectify and do not respect. Why not work on fixing that? Because we might end up at a burka when you find that the modest dressing doesn't end it.

[Mos]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

Leave your makeup at home ladies the armenian taliban has a better way for you. I wonder if Kannadahye got that ring on her finger yet and if he told her about the burka he expects her to ware while in public? O and btw driving a car is deemed immodest to so not zoom zoom for the ladies either. Voting would require a woman to have an opinion so lets get rid of that to. Women do not need to be educated caus they mainly childbearing plants so no school for you. Ahh the wonders of the armenian caliphate - what a wonderfull world it will be. Might have to go out of the country now to get a lapdance but hey its a price a man must pay to keep his woman inline. Once you get on this hill of opression it becomes a slipery slope that people have fought for centuries to climb out of but i am sure the armenian taliban will give us the answers we need.

But no one is saying that. Dressing modestly doesn't entail wearing a burka (in our culture at least). In many Armenian families, the daughter will be reprimanded if she goes out dressed very openly. She also won't be allowed to go to dances/clubs where men can grab her and touch her (these are the places where such women are taken advantage of, and regret for the rest of their life). These things have nothing to do with Taliban, they are normal customs of a traditional Armenian society, where women are respected and not objectified like they are in the West often. Women are to be respected as the holders of family, respected for their elegance and modesty, not viewed as a tool to be used then thrown away in order to use another such woman.

[Haykakan]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

Leave your makeup at home ladies the armenian taliban has a better way for you. I wonder if Kannadahye got that ring on her finger yet and if he told her about the burka he expects her to ware while in public? O and btw driving a car is deemed immodest to so not zoom zoom for the ladies either. Voting would require a woman to have an opinion so lets get rid of that to. Women do not need to be educated caus they mainly childbearing plants so no school for you. Ahh the wonders of the armenian caliphate - what a wonderfull world it will be. Might have to go out of the country now to get a lapdance but hey its a price a man must pay to keep his woman inline. Once you get on this hill of opression it becomes a slipery slope that people have fought for centuries to climb out of but i am sure the armenian taliban will give us the answers we need.

[Mos]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

Other things have varied along with that increase though. It's impossible to isolate that one thing out of a tangle of interrelated factors all exerting their individual and combined influences on society and hold up that one string as "the one" that's responsible for it and then argue for the curtailing of the rights of one subset of the population because of it.

I agree with you though that consumerism probably has something to do with it and also with the inflated senses of self (in the absence on any actual accomplishments) we're seeing too. It's all the buy ____, you deserve it! Treat yourself to ____, you earned it!

Don't you feel that men have changed in a way you don't find desirable either? Why are we only fixated on women's attire? You can force people to dress a particular way, but unless you change the underlying whatever that led them to dress that way in the first place, you haven't fixed anything. They'll continue on with the same beliefs and values and pass those along to their children.

Just thinking about and extrapolating based on the Armenians I know and interact with, I can say that if Armenia got even less secular, there'd be a lot of Armenians it would be alienating itself to and that would be a shame. It would expedite the death of the country as not only would people not repatriate, but the rest would likely flee in greater haste.

Yeah but what else is going to be responsible for it? It's very easy to just look at some of the liberal Western societies, their values/expectations, then look at some of more conservative societies, and you see a clear difference in values, lifestyle, and so forth. You compare a typical European's way of thinking with that of an average Armenian's. These differences are not random, but there's clear cultural differences.

Consumerism/Materialism is a problem. It's a result of capitalism of course, but on the other hand Communism/Socialism has worse consequences. I personally favour liberal-economic policies, though I believe the emphasis of traditional and religious values in your society will help diminish such materialism. We are not pagans, the highest values in our society should come from our traditions and God.

The immodest dressing is just a symptom of such Western influence. You first develop the mindset from Western, liberal influence as a symptom of that can often be the immodest dressing. It's rather quite unfortunate, because they think by dressing open they are being "free" and "independent", when in fact they are just objectifying themselves even more.

I doubt reinforcing your religious and cultural values would make people flee. If people are going to flee their a country where cultural/religious values are emphasised, maybe it's better they do. Armenia needs to be saved from becoming another "secular European state" that employs "multi culturalism" and other liberal cultural constructs that don't reflect the Armenian nation.

[Siggie]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

So are they doing it because Armenian culture has turned upside down in a matter of a few years? Throughout the decade, Western influence in Armenia has increased and so have those type of people. This all provides very good evidence for that. More and more there have been clashes between such liberal, Western values and the more conservative values to protect. A great example of this was that protest in the summer of patriot Armenians against such "diversity" people, who were concerned that such people are bringing such degenerate Western values into Armenian society. Materialism is a common feature among some of those Yerevanci women that you see. Some are on the edge between their Armenian values and this new European way of life, others firmly in either camp. It's a problem. I mean just imagine when a mother taking her kid out, dresses so vulgar, you would confuse her for prostitute. Is this the filth we need?



Well I'm referring to his particular statement, not about if there are gays or not in Iran. He makes some really good points though regarding the institution of family being under attack, or the decaying of historical, pure cultures. He's right though about those principles lacking in leaderships. Maybe a bit idealistic, as you can't expect much from politicians in general, but he makes a good point. When religion is more integrated in your society though, in governance and common society, those principles can be advanced and valued more than in heavily secular society.



My beliefs are in no way extreme nor Islamic. Conservative Christian culture exists in many places, not just Armenia, and there are many Armenians that also believe that our traditional values need to be protected, and these foreign liberal values rejected.

Other things have varied along with that increase though. It's impossible to isolate that one thing out of a tangle of interrelated factors all exerting their individual and combined influences on society and hold up that one string as "the one" that's responsible for it and then argue for the curtailing of the rights of one subset of the population because of it.

I agree with you though that consumerism probably has something to do with it and also with the inflated senses of self (in the absence on any actual accomplishments) we're seeing too. It's all the buy ____, you deserve it! Treat yourself to ____, you earned it!

Don't you feel that men have changed in a way you don't find desirable either? Why are we only fixated on women's attire? You can force people to dress a particular way, but unless you change the underlying whatever that led them to dress that way in the first place, you haven't fixed anything. They'll continue on with the same beliefs and values and pass those along to their children.

Just thinking about and extrapolating based on the Armenians I know and interact with, I can say that if Armenia got even less secular, there'd be a lot of Armenians it would be alienating itself to and that would be a shame. It would expedite the death of the country as not only would people not repatriate, but the rest would likely flee in greater haste.

You guys are nutts like where did i say only rich white people should reproduce? When you got nothing good to say it might be best not to say anything. Rightwingers seem to be as attached to reality as dumbo was attached to the ground.

The Debate Loser's Underhanded Tactic #1 - If you can't attack the argument actually made, erect a strawman!

[gegev]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

Your words are properly polished and each has its own meaning separately , but somehow, when you put them together, the whole thing doesn't carry even a tiniest organized idea/meaning, regarding the subject under discussion, my dear philosopher; "arajadem datarkaxos"! Therefore let me ignore the words.

In the end that is what hetamnats people do best-ignore reality and make up their own dreamworld which never existed and never will.

You guys are nutts like where did i say only rich white people should reproduce? When you got nothing good to say it might be best not to say anything. Rightwingers seem to be as attached to reality as dumbo was attached to the ground.

I can't change my opinion about you.
End of ...munication.

[Haykakan]

Re: Who is the Armenian girl that our guys strive to marry.

You guys are nutts like where did i say only rich white people should reproduce? When you got nothing good to say it might be best not to say anything. Rightwingers seem to be as attached to reality as dumbo was attached to the ground.