How does everyone feel about Israel?

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Oh really? How about those tens of thousands of Iranians who chose to flee to Turkey, Europe or Southern California instead of defending their motherland? How about those who went and will still go at any length to escape the military service? Why should an average Iranian-Armenian act so differently? Armenians of Iran have done/do more than any religious minority to contribute to the prosperity of Iran on different levels; social, economic, cultural...

While I do not agree here with Karo (a recognition means little to Armenia today), I think you sometimes spoil your healthy, intelligent approaches to different matters by such unbalanced statements deriving from a 'superiority' complex which is a result of an underlying inferiority complex.

Well, in all honesty.... I don't know too many people that would stay and fight knowing the reasons behind the war. Defending your country is one thing and playing pawn for world powers is another. Was anything really accomplished on either side in the Iran-Iraq war besides the slaughter of people on both sides?

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Oh really? How about those tens of thousands of Iranians who chose to flee to Turkey, Europe or Southern California instead of defending their motherland? How about those who went and will still go at any length to escape the military service? Why should an average Iranian-Armenian act so differently? ... I think you sometimes spoil your healthy, intelligent approaches to different matters by such unbalanced statements deriving from a 'superiority' complex which is a result of an underlying inferiority complex.

1. Tell me more about the Iranian "inferiority complex"-- it's interesting for Iranians to learn what Armenians think of them.

2. Whether I condemn Iranians or not for evading military service is not the point (Frankly, you don't know my views on that subject as I've never expressed them, and it's silly for you to assume you do.). However, I asked Karo several questions -- let's see if he will man-up and answer them directly. Once he answers, you can ask me anything you want.

3. Your question is a silly one - and contains an erroneous factual assumption that I will point out after Karo answer - you're not Karo, so let's not get off track. (Here's a hint: Go and check the dates of when the bulk of the Iranian diaspora took place, and the date of the start of the Iran/Iraq war, and add to it the military service requirements. Once you do that, you will see the flaws in your question.)

Why don't you give Karo a chance to see if he can answer the questions I asked without running interference for him? And please tell us more about the Iranian "inferiority complex" - exactly WHO are we inferior to, WHY do you think we're inferior, and WHERE do you get your data from?

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

1. Tell me more about the Iranian "inferiority complex"-- it's interesting for Iranians to learn what Armenians think of them.

I wouldn't take it too personally, Armenian women say the same about Armenian men

[Lucin]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

1. Tell me more about the Iranian "inferiority complex"-- it's interesting for Iranians to learn what Armenians think of them.

2. Whether I condemn Iranians or not for evading military service is not the point (Frankly, you don't know my views on that subject as I've never expressed them, and it's silly for you to assume you do.). However, I asked Karo several questions -- let's see if he will man-up and answer them directly. Once he answers, you can ask me anything you want.

3. Your question is a silly one - and contains an erroneous factual assumption that I will point out after Karo answer - you're not Karo, so let's not get off track. (Here's a hint: Go and check the dates of when the bulk of the Iranian diaspora took place, and the date of the start of the Iran/Iraq war, and add to it the military service requirements. Once you do that, you will see the flaws in your question.)

Why don't you give Karo a chance to see if he can answer the questions I asked without running interference for him? And please tell us more about the Iranian "inferiority complex" - exactly WHO are we inferior to, WHY do you think we're inferior, and WHERE do you get your data from?

Obviously my talk was referred to the person who said : "Incidentally, why don't you, and others like you, cut the crap: Have you thanked Iran, or were your parents one of those Armenians that got up and fled without helping Iranians when Iraq tried to invade Iran? Or did you grow up in one of those homes where your parents forgot to tell you that the reason many Armenians are alive today is because of Iran?" not to all Iranians. I am an Iranian myself. So no need to generalize...

And it is the point, you just easily down played the role of Iranian-Armenians in the eight-year imposed war. So as an Iranian-Armenian I feel compelled to clarify, regardless of what another member has to say.

I wouldn't take it too personally, Armenian women say the same about Armenian men

Anhamer, Kanada...

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Anhamer, Kanada...

Kiddem Lucin, I was playing diplomat

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

In any case, Armenia and Iran like in the past will continue to have cordial relations based on mutual interests, regardless of the Genocide 'recognition'. In today's political atmosphere Iran's recognition of the Genocide would not have much significance, in my opinion.

If you believe that: Sponsor a petition to take the AG memorials out of Iran that the government approved without precondition starting in the 1930s; write a letter to the former President of Iran asking him rescind his visit to the AG memorial in Armenia (which didn't require bribes or lobbying) and tell the Iranian President that you don't need his condolences. Put in your letter that the U.S. and its allies have treated you better and that a sign should be put up next the Armenian churches that Iran helped build that state the following:

Go pray towards Mecca and shout 'allahu akbar'

In case you missed the sarcasm of my points; I believe a lot of under-educated attitudes regarding the contributions Iranians have made to the survival of Armenians and Armenia will harm your countrymen. As these sorts of ideas gain a foothold without sharply being rebuked, you can be certain that Iranians will be increasingly alienated.

If your government hasn't thought of educating its population about the relevant Iranian/Armenian history, in my estimation that's a big miscalculation. Stated differently, I am so surprised at how misinformed, ungrateful, and insulting some Armenians are, and I'm sure other Iranians will be too.

Here's an idea:

1. Go ask your government why Armenia was 3 times the size it was when it was protected by Iran?

2. Ask your government whether the AG occurred AFTER certain Armenian politicians thought that 'Armenia being within Iran's sphere of influence was bad' and demanded that Russia take over?

3. Ask your government how many wars Iran fought against the Ottomans and Mongols that kept trying invade Iran from the North to wipe out Armenia?

4. Ask your government for a list of countries that didn't blockade Armenia during that NK war and refused to sell Baku weapons.

When you have that information at hand, let me know your findings.

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

you just easily down played the role of Iranian-Armenians in the eight-year imposed war.

Wrong. I asked a specific person, specific questions in relation to comments HE made. See if you can spot the questions I asked Karo (Is your name "Karo"?):

My Questions to Karo:

1. Have you thanked Iran, or were your parents one of those Armenians that got up and fled without helping Iranians when Iraq tried to invade Iran?

2. Or did you grow up in one of those homes where your parents forgot to tell you that the reason many Armenians are alive today is because of Iran?"

P.S. I have an entire thread devoted to Armenian contributions to Iran and relations with Iranians. I haven't downplayed anything - I am well-aware of the history though others aren't, and where I believe they have an obligation to educate themselves about facts. And some members seem adverse to that information, which is quite shocking to me.

[Lucin]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

If you believe that: Sponsor a petition to take the AG memorials out of Iran that the government approved without precondition starting in the 1930s; write a letter to the former President of Iran asking him rescind his visit to the AG memorial in Armenia (which didn't require bribes or lobbying) and tell the Iranian President that you don't need his condolences. Put in your letter that the U.S. and its allies have treated you better and that a sign should be put up next the Armenian churches that Iran helped build that state the following:





If your government hasn't thought of educating its population about the relevant Iranian/Armenian history, in my estimation that's a big miscalculation. Stated differently, I am so surprised at how misinformed, ungrateful, and insulting some Armenians are, and I'm sure other Iranians will be too.

Here's an idea:

1. Go ask your government why Armenia was 3 times the size it was when it was protected by Iran?

2. Ask your government whether the AG occurred AFTER certain Armenian politicians thought that 'Armenia being within Iran's sphere of influence was bad' and demanded that Russia take over?

3. Ask your government how many wars Iran fought against the Ottomans and Mongols that kept trying invade Iran from the North to wipe out Armenia?

4. Ask your government for a list of countries that didn't blockade Armenia during that NK war and refused to sell Baku weapons.

When you have that information at hand, let me know your findings.

Please stop distorting what is being said.

You are not the one to tell me to write a letter to the Americans or anyone else for that matter. As it has been proved many times recognition of the Genocide no matter by who (it has been recognized by many countries like France, Argentina, Sweden, etc.) other than being a tool in the West’s pocket to keep the Turks at bay every once in a while does not do any good to Armenia.

Wrong. I asked a specific person, specific questions in relation to comments HE made. See if you can spot the questions I asked Karo (Is your name "Karo"?):

My Questions to Karo:

1. Have you thanked Iran, or were your parents one of those Armenians that got up and fled without helping Iranians when Iraq tried to invade Iran?

2. Or did you grow up in one of those homes where your parents forgot to tell you that the reason many Armenians are alive today is because of Iran?"

First of all, Karo is not an Iranian-Armenian, so he is clearly not aware of what you are talking about; the 'involvement' (or non-involvement according to you) of Iranian-Armenians during the war. Second of all, this is a FORUM, everyone can 'interfere' to comment, disagree, agree, clarify and/or point out a fallacy. Get used to it.

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

First of all, Karo is not an Iranian-Armenian, so he is clearly not aware of what you are talking about; the 'involvement' (or non-involvement according to you) of Iranian-Armenians during the war. Second of all, this is a FORUM, everyone can 'interfere' to comment, disagree, agree, clarify and/or point out a fallacy. Get used to it.

How do you know what Karo is aware of or not? Can you read his mind? He hasn't answered my questions to him - why don't you let Karo answer for himself? Do you brush his teeth for him too?

And if he "is clearly not aware" - maybe he should be. Education is a personal responsibility.
It's an old Chinese proverb: "The teacher can open the door to the classroom, but you have to enter yourself."

[Lucin]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

How do you know what Karo is aware of or not? Can you read his mind? He hasn't answered my questions to him - why don't you let Karo answer for himself? Do you brush his teeth for him too?

And if he "is clearly not aware" - maybe he should be. Education is a personal responsibility.
It's an old Chinese proverb: "The teacher can open the door to the classroom, but you have to enter yourself."

Is it too hard for you to understand how a discussion forum functions? Karo is not from Iran, so based on our past convos I know he doesn’t know much about the community. You threw in a fallacy regarding the community, I reserved myself the right to correct it for the unsuspecting reader. End of the story.