"White People"

[ArmoBarbi]

I think that having our own language, we are able to use it as a clue as to our origin and finding which group we belong to in terms of origin. (Keeping in mind that our language even has had influence by people who have taken us over and such)

Of course we have "cultural" similarities with these people, just like Soviet Armenians have "cultural" similarities with Russians. Our culture will be similar to people who are near and who capture us. The Middle Eastern and Asiatic just seem more legit because they go further back. Had we been captured for years by Germans we would have more "cultural" similarities to Germans. You really wanna go by this as evidence to our racial grouping and origin??

[winoman]

I think that having our own language, we are able to use it as a clue as to our origin and finding which group we belong to in terms of origin. (Keeping in mind that our language even has had influence by people who have taken us over and such)

Of course we have "cultural" similarities with these people, just like Soviet Armenians have "cultural" similarities with Russians. Our culture will be similar to people who are near and who capture us. The Middle Eastern and Asiatic just seem more legit because they go further back. Had we been captured for years by Germans we would have more "cultural" similarities to Germans. You really wanna go by this as evidence to our racial grouping and origin??

I'm not sure the issue was necissarily "racial grouping and origin" - with emphasis on "origin" - to some degree this is a new point to the discussion - or at least has not been directly brought out until now. I think I have pretty clearly made the case that "white" is meaningless (we are not "white" in color and the idea of a "white" race is pretty much meaningless) - there is not really a clear scientific distinction for purposes of grouping people (white - non-white...its a subjective grouping) - and we cannot really be considered European (though if your German scenario would have occured then perhaps we would be considered European...however we have been around much longer then "Germans" per se - consider that). So - in terms of "grouping" - it seems - from what I have read and from talking extensively with an ethnologist aquaintance who has written on and specializes in our region (who might be aminiable to joining our discussion...might be...if I wear to contact and invite him...) - we are most closely (physically/genetically) related to Persians and Kurds (culture seems to bear this out to some degree as well - accounting for differences in the nomadism expressed by the Kurds of course). You see - its culture that matters - not so much grouping us with other folks from far back in time (before we culturally were "Armenian"). Sure the issue of our origins is an interesting one - and one where we just don't have the answers. Many possible theories of our origins abound...then there is the issue of what groupings of peoples may have joined together to eventually become what we consider Armenians (and each of these groups may have had quite different origins - check out info availabe on the Hittites for instance...their language was not ours and they were seemingly comprised [as an empire] of different groups - one or more of which seem to have become - at least in part - Armenian... )....so even this issue of our origins in not a clear one and one that leads to many dead ends - inconclusive at best (now perhaps genetics may answer many of these questions...eventually...but for now we just don't really know...)...so in the end it is the culture (that damn Lavash bread again...) which binds us...make sense?

[Anonymouse]

BTW - I occasionaly monitor this site and some other similar ones - I have seen numerous instances where Armenians were heaped with abuse and were racially taunted and called camel-jockys or similar from these stormfront and other Aryan racist types...so good luck with fitting in with your new found buddies...

And I have seen far more instances where Armenians were greeted with respect and considered white since I monitor it as well. I have not seen them be called camel jockies.

[winoman]

And I have seen far more instances where Armenians were greeted with respect and considered white since I monitor it as well. I have not seen them be called camel jockies.

no doubt you do monitor it...and get inspiration from it...etc...well obviously you get off and feel the need to associate with those who must grab onto something other then their own acheivement to feel superior about themselves...

[Anonymouse]

Often lefty liberal egalitarians like to claim that "white" and "race" are meaningless because they are "social constructs". Well, that begs the question for what isn't a social construct? The fact that humans attribute meanings to differences and use language and thought to classify and make distinctions only attests to this fact. However, where do these social constructs come from? The names given to things in reality are derived from those things within that reality. That one sees a black person one calls them black. One does not call them white.

Throughout history and throughout time all peoples have been conscious of the differences among population groups, and civilizations, from antiquity and even now, despite 50 plus years of egatalitarian fiction and fraud, and politically correct polemic of trying to blur the natural and cognitive ability to differentiate. Humans recognize differences when they see it and that is why historically they have referred to Asians as the yellow race, Caucasians as white, and Negroids as black. The politically correct lefty liberal egalitarian will have no such things. For example despite different hues of the color green, we still assign it as being green.



To discriminate is to different based on assigning meanings to this or that thing. Thus it is only natural for humans to classify objects within their perceived reality as that is being human all too human. A person who is colorblind cannot make that distinction, but for the rest of us, it is too clear.

[Anonymouse]

no doubt you do monitor it...and get inspiration from it...etc...well obviously you get off and feel the need to associate with those who must grab onto something other then their own acheivement to feel superior about themselves...

Where did I say I associate with those "who must grab onto something other then their own acheivement to feel superior about themselves..."

If you claim you monitor it you should at least know that they are white nationalists, or separatists, and disagree when people call them "white supremacists". They make it quite clear as they try to avoid the usual smear by the liberal egalitarians who believe in colorblind bliss.

[ArmoBarbi]

The German thing was just an example to point out that we cant go by cultural influances when discussing origin or racial groupings, etc. Was that hard to understand?

Of course this argument is about origin and racial grouping. It was mentioned several times by people in this thread. Noone is arguing about what we eat or what musical instruments we use...

Its true that there is more than one theory about our origin, but I dont know of any that claims we are Middle Eastern or Asiatic over European. Even the theory that suggests that we are a mix of two tribes one being from the Balkans and one from Anatolia says that the Balkan tribe was the one that brought its culture to the other. Is there any question that the Balkans are European???

You think that because we eat lavash instead of English muffins we are more Middle Eastern than European? This is silly, Im sorry. Europeans are not this one little group that one can define by Aryan features or croissonts. This is why geographers have "Nordic Europe", "Mediterranian Europe", etc.

[winoman]

I've seen some Indians from India with the blackest skin imaginable - coall black. So we may call them Blacks - as we see and percieve their blackness...what however does this reeally tell us about who they are and who they are related to? Very little. It is their culture that matters. When we say racial distinctions are a social construct (and you agreeing to this is tantamount now to admiting that race has no real genetic/physical component!) - well it was because of convenience. Perhaps useful (fro rascists to make distinctions - who should be considered sub human and worthy of slavery and such -etc) - but not scientifically valid..

[Anonymouse]

I've seen some Indians from India with the blackest skin imaginable - coall black. So we may call them Blacks - as we see and percieve their blackness...what however does this reeally tell us about who they are and who they are related to? Very little. It is their culture that matters. When we say racial distinctions are a social construct (and you agreeing to this is tantamount now to admiting that race has no real genetic/physical component!) - well it was because of convenience. Perhaps useful (fro rascists to make distinctions - who should be considered sub human and worthy of slavery and such -etc) - but not scientifically valid..

Race does have a genetic component. When I said social construct I mean the names given. You are again misconstruing what I have said. And again culture is a product of the racial group. Not the other way around. If different races were not there to create different cultures how else did these cultures come to be?

The caste system in India is only evidence of racial dilution, and that at one time the Aryans invaded India and gave it the culture they bear.

Furthermore, why do lefty liberal egalitarians like to assume that because one recognizes racial distinctions and chooses not to mix that one is a fascist in support of slavery. Again another logical fallacy.

[winoman]

Where did I say I associate with those "who must grab onto something other then their own acheivement to feel superior about themselves..."

If you claim you monitor it you should at least know that they are white nationalists, or separatists, and disagree when people call them "white supremacists". They make it quite clear as they try to avoid the usual smear by the liberal egalitarians who believe in colorblind bliss.

a nice claim that does not bear itself out when you actually read the nastyness & trash that these people are touting..