Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[Gavur]

Theres no excuse for Genocide Shame on those turks and their collabaraters

[pathfinder]

It was planned relocation, not a genocide.

Too bad they ended up starving to death! And those are the ones that got that far and weren't hanged or beheaded before the march to the desert (so-called relocation) started.


Gavur, these turks are all suffering from denial syndromes, leave them alone.

[Gavur]

It was planned relocation, not a genocide.

Thats the official version ,pity even THAT wasnt thought by the turkish theachers in turkey when i went school there, cover up? Besides i gave you my personel account and all your doing is under the guise of keeping communications open restating the official position Katliam erkeklige sigmaz (Massacre is not manhood)

[Gavur]

Bugra-What would you call kiyim or kesim of my ancestors?

What ancestor who? someone you know tell me your personel account

[Gavur]

Turks were also murdered by armenians is a fact ,but my understanding is this was after the planned massacres by turks what i was asking your friends was if he had a personel account of these from HIS granfolk like i did to find common ground if not you can communicate all you want but you cant really share the grief of the killings the rest is just B.S

[Gavur]

Armenian News Network / Groong
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Armenian Delegation Calls on Young Turks To Recognize The Genocide
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:20:32 -0700 (PDT)

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ARMENIAN DELEGATION CALLS ON YOUNG TURKS TO RECOGNIZE ARMENIAN
GENOCIDE AT ISTANBUL INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE

YEREVAN, JUNE 23, NOYAN TAPAN. "Our struggle is first of all aimed
against Turkish government that is doing its best in order that its
society and, in particular, youth, shouldn't know the historic truth,"
Zinavor Meghrian, representative of ARF Dashnaktsutiun party's youth
wing, declared at the June 23 press conference dedicated to the
results of the international youth conference on problems of national
minorities that was held lately in Istanbul. According to him, the
Turks' inflexible attitude to the issue of recognition of Armenian
Genocide is explained by the position of some Armenian politicians.

Thus, Sargis Asatrian, Chairman of the Youth Party of Armenia, in
particular, declared during his visit to Turkey that Armenia has no
problems with today's Turkey. According to Z.Meghrian, proceeding from
such statements Turks propagandize the idea of non-participation of RA
Armenians in the issue of recognition of Armenian Genocide. According
to this point of view, the initiative in the issue belongs to the
Diasporan Armenians. According to him, in conversations with
representatives of Turkish press it was found out that the latters
were misinformed about a number of issues concerning Armenian-Turkish
relations. In particular, the Turkish journalists declared that the
Armenian-Turkish border was closed by Armenians. Zinavor Meghrian
reported that the Armenian delegation called on the Turkish youth to
study the dark pages of their history and to recognize the
Genocide. According to him, the Turks' first reaction was extremely
negative but already during their personal meetings with Armenians the
representatives of Turkish youth showed interest in this issue.



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I'm curious, What are turkish schools teaching today re Armenians and their history?
When i went to school in Turkey they thaught us in WW1 in Eastern Turkey Kazim Karabekir fought and beat the Kurds and Armenians and Mustafa Kemal pushed the enemy to the sea who were Greeks and the enemy burned their OWN city as they left.

[imported_Hellektor]

Think Before You Defecate With Your Mouth

Hellektor tells us that he lives in Iran. I think he should spend his energy to help the Armenian community in Iran to achieve at least half of what they had been able to achieve under the Turkish rule.. I wonder if they have all those Western style theatrical performance, actresses, etc. in Iran..

An example of leap before you think. It’s so characteristic of the Turkish smear and slander campaign. Not only they never read a history book, they have never seen the cover of any. They only assume and they believe in a fictitious “history” where everything is upside down.
I won’t cite the names of countless Iranian Armenians who have contributed to the advancement of Iran in every imaginable field. Just some examples, then you can read an article from BBC Persian, written by a Persian and judge for yourselves.
Yeprem Khan (a Dashnak if you please), is one of the most prominent figures of the most important movement in Iran in the last couple of centuries, the Constitutional Revolution. He, along with other Armenians like Kerry (a Dashnak if you please as well), fought for Iran’s freedom and gave their lives for their country.
The official currency of Iran is Rial, but no one refers to this on the street, instead, the unofficial currency Tooman (=10 Rials) is used in commerce everywhere and it comes from Toomanians who were pioneers of banking in Iran.
The first book printed in Iran was an Armenian Book of Psalms, printed by the very first press in Jugha in 1638, brought to Iran by Bishop Khachatour Kesaratsi.
The first Iranian movie (silent) was made by Hovhannes Ohanians.
The first school for actors was founded by Armenians. The same goes for theater, modern architecture, painting, music…
Now, the article. Unlike the copy-pasters who have turned this forum into a mirror server for the “tallturkishtale” website, I had to spend some time translating it since the original is in Persian:

Iranian Armenians, the Weight of a Minority Among a Nation, by Sirus Ali Nejad, from BBC Persian

Living four hundred years in Iran, that gave the Armenians their Iranian identity, and since accepting all that is good is in their nature, they took in as much as they could from Iranian culture and they influenced the Iranian culture many times more than they had taken from it. The Iranian influence on Armenians is something the Armenians themselves can talk about, the purpose of this report is to show the influence of the Armenians on Iranian culture.

In “Symphony of the Dead”, a novel by Abbas Maaroufi, set in the twenties (solar Hijri calendar H.), that deals with a feud, everybody has a role in ruining the life of the main character Aidin, except an Armenian family the Mirzaians, who own a timber cutting factory, who don’t spare an effort in saving the Muslim protagonist of the novel.

This is not a random or artificial image of the Armenians of Iran, it’s an image that the majority of Iranians have from their compatriots for four hundred years. Anyone among us who has known Armenians in their city or town, has an image of camaraderie and agreement of thoughts in their mind. “Symphony of the Dead” doesn’t just point to the virtuous nature of this minority but to their industriousness as well.

The image of Armenians in the minds of Iranians is one of skillful craftsmen who free from any deceit and full of trustworthiness engage in various technical professions. Until the Islamic Revolution, that is, in the period they were present much more extensively in Iran, usually the best carpenters, the furniture makers with the greatest taste, the cleanest producers of foodstuff, the most trustworthy mechanics, tailors, shoe makers, confectioners would be found among them, of course, the sales of drinks was also their domain.

Reviewing the names of pioneers in various branches of art, industry and commerce of our time will reveal how much this minority has influenced the Iranian culture. In the advancement of contemporary Iran there isn’t a single field where one doesn’t come across their names, everywhere they are either the most prominent or the founders.

After the tragic forced migration by Shah Abbas and after their settlement in Julfa, Isfahan and the healing process with the contribution of the Shah, they became Iranians and they worked passionately for the improvement of Iran, and since they were a cultured people they became the pioneers in progress and novelties in all fields: in politics, in arts, in science and technology, in music, in cinema, in painting, in theater, in photography, in turning to civilization, in printing and publishing, in industry and architecture and in any field imaginable the names of the Armenians are to be found in the ranks of the leaders. Possibly no other minority anywhere in the world can be found who has served so much a country that logically should have been considered their second home but became their first.

Because of their engagement in trade, even from the time of Shah Abbas, they have been responsible for establishing relations between Iran and the West. On one hand, the fact that the Armenians were dispersed all over the world, facilitated their movement to different corners of the globe, on the other hand, the relations between them and the Christians of Europe, resulted in their acquaintance with Western new ideas and civilization earlier than other Iranians.

Because of this, they became the forerunners in the learning of sciences and technical skills, and this in turn resulted that in later periods, especially in the last hundred and fifty years, when Iran had become aware of the importance of the progress in the West, they functioned as an open window towards the European civilization.

We Iranians owe the presence of the Armenians to Shah Abbas. Our debt to Armenians themselves is incalculable. A people that lived for four hundred years among Iranians, learned to speak Persian and created works in Persian (Mirza Melkom Khan being the most prominent), but preserved their language. I cannot think of another ethnicity or nation that has the same weight as this people… having lived for several centuries among strangers, having become locals, having created this amount of wonders, having become landlords of their houses, at the same time not having lost their independence, is an art that not many nations master.

………….

Several links related to Iranian Armenians are presented in this section of the article.

[Hovik]

Help, ...why don't you go stuff that in your pipe and smoke it...

[hahkp1975]

Very Biased Views about Armenian Terrorism

I am not surprised why turks in this forum don't take arguments of Hellektor seriously. Speaking of genocide, scientific, historic facts are mentioned, and there is a stress on being "objective" but when a turk debater mentions names of Yanikian, Alex Yenikomshian, Levon Ekmekjian...the guy becomes "sentimental" ..."subjective" and starts "throwing out jewels"...

Who said that "all armenians" hate ASALA and that "all" consider them "traitors" and "anti-tashnag" "turkish agents"...who appointed Hellektor as spokesman of "all armenian" people..and when was a consensus held in the armenian diaspora about armenian terrorism and ASALA...????

Then, who said that being "anti-tashnag" is a "crime" ? and that being "anti-tashnag" would automaically mean "turkish agent" ..??

The above statements are really nonsense, praising Belgrade attack of 1983 and at the same time avoiding to talk about Esenbogha operation in 1982...or Yanikian's heroism...is a shameful armenian factionalist narrowmindedness...

All of them should be our heroes, since they believed in a just cause and sacrificed their lives, whether some approved of their methods or did not approve...

Being anti or pro tashnag is irrelevant.

[imported_Hellektor]

Relevance or irrelevance, that's out of the question.

I am not surprised why turks in this forum don't take arguments of Hellektor seriously. Speaking of genocide, scientific, historic facts are mentioned, and there is a stress on being "objective" but when a turk debater mentions names of Yanikian, Alex Yenikomshian, Levon Ekmekjian...the guy becomes "sentimental" ..."subjective" and starts "throwing out jewels"...

I have let known time and again that I'm no scholar, expert or historian. I have said dozens of times I have my own way of discussing subjects and I never said I'm 100% objective, no one can ever be. Whether you or anyone takes my arguments seriously or not, I don't really care. I don't know how many of my posts you've read, but it seems you also attack with a similar tactic as the Turks do: just quote/refer to one sentence in one post and judge and execute me accordingly.

Who said that "all armenians" hate ASALA and that "all" consider them "traitors" and "anti-tashnag" "turkish agents"...who appointed Hellektor as spokesman of "all armenian" people..and when was a consensus held in the armenian diaspora about armenian terrorism and ASALA...????

OK, I take it back. Of course, not all Armenians should think exactly the same way, and I don't consider myself the spokesman for anyone. But whether you like it or not, whether ASALA are indeed agents or not (of course, those in the lower ranks and the sympathizers couldn't know), what they did was against the interests of the Armenians.

Then, who said that being "anti-tashnag" is a "crime" ? and that being "anti-tashnag" would automaically mean "turkish agent" ..??

No one said, you "got it wrong". It's not a crime, and surprise, surprise I'm not a Dashnak myself, but if it wasn't for Aram Manoukians, Njdehs and Dros of this world, this small 10% part of our historic homeland wouldn't exist today.
When I was going to school, at the time of the Islamic Revolution, the first two years were strange times. We had never seen a communist in our lives in Shah's time, in fact they were the ones feared most by Shah's regime and he didn't pay attention to the religious fanatics…
But to our theme. Suddenly everybody was a communist, all my classmates and indeed a huge number of Iranian youth. Of course the communist groupings were crushed mercilessly after the regime established itself and the rest is history.
Communist newspapers mushroomed everyday, the guys in the class would hang posters of Lenin, Marx and Stalin on classroom walls, it was an unknown period of speech freedom never seen before in Iran. I don't know, but I hated those faces and they all looked evil to me. All the guys thought it was cool to hate the Dashnaks and it seemed the only activity they did was to smear the Dashnaks and nothing else...
Well, years went by and the impossible happened. The rotten, Russian Soviet Empire crumbled and Armenia also discovered her real heroes who had been slandered as traitors for seventy years. The Red-Blue-Orange tricolor, the heroes of the first republic, the uprising of February 18, 1921, all the Dashnaks who had been slaughtered in the Soviet dungeons, etc were given back the dignity they deserved.
For all those years the true patriots were being spewed upon and the real beasts like the Jew-Tatar Lenin and the worse than Turk, Georgian Stalin who shat in our spelling system to divide the nation and cut our country into pieces and gave it to the wolves in the east (Nakhijevan, Artsakh) and in the west (Kars, Ardahan, Ardvin, Surmalu) were being worshipped as the saviors of our nation...
Well, why do I say all this? Because, correct me if I'm wrong, ASALA were a kind of what the Iranians call Camel-Cow-Panther sort of grouping: On one hand leftist, on another hand anti-Dashnaks (in fact what they were doing was to make what the Ardaradad Martikner were doing look bad, although I personally deplore any sort of terrorism), and on another hand they presented themselves as patriots. Well, I don't like this sort of organizations and I believe any well informed Armenian wouldn’t like them either, hate me as much as you want.
It's so that all the commies fled to the Capitalist, Imperialist USA they were xxxxting on their whole lives and it's a pity I can't meet anyone of them to ask what they think of Armenia now, with all its negative and positive sides.
What do they think of Aram Manoukian, Yeprem Khan, Kerry, Gevork Chavoosh, Serop pasha, Dro, etc now? The people they were throwing garbage all the time using the crappy commie pseudo-intellectual, class-struggle-and-social-evolution-babble, like they were bourgeois, nationalist, reactionary, SR, etc. and that all the peoples of the "Union" were brothers (when ethnic cleansing was going on in Nakhijevan...). Where the hell are those chameleons now?
As an Iranian proverb goes: winter will pass and blackness will remain for soot.

The above statements are really nonsense, praising Belgrade attack of 1983 and at the same time avoiding to talk about Esenbogha operation in 1982...or Yanikian's heroism...is a shameful armenian factionalist narrowmindedness...

I haven't praised any attacks, so don't put words in my mouth, a thing none of the Turks on this forum did. Your "passionate" criticism just shows your "factionalist narrowmindedness", a disease we Armenians suffer from not so seldom.

All of them should be our heroes, since they believed in a just cause and sacrificed their lives, whether some approved of their methods or did not approve...

Some people strap a bomb on themselves, "sacrifice" their lives and kill twenty or more people and tear scores to pieces, believing in a "cause" and believing they will be rewarded with eternal virgins in paradise... The more they kill, the more virgins they get.

Being anti or pro tashnag is irrelevant.

Serving your people (no one's perfect, everybody makes mistakes) or harming them is relevant.