Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[Hovik]

please sir, may I have another!

Here is another for you, complete with SOURCE...

How many died?

Morgenthau, working with limited information, claimed that "at least 600,000 people" had been killed in the genocide, "and perhaps as many as 1,000,000." Modern estimates tend to be higher, ranging from 1.1 to 1.8 million killed out of about 2.5 million Armenians alive in the Ottoman lands at the onset of the slaughter in 1915. As a proportion of population, it is believed that between half and three-quarters of all Ottoman Armenians died in the genocide. This is a death rate comparable to the Jewish holocaust, in which some two-thirds of European Jews were killed.

Source: Here

[Hovik]

how many will I find???

Here's yet another for yah...

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/...rt_armenia.htm

[Hovik]

Ok, that should get you started. If you still want more send me a private message letting me know and I'll be happy to post until your sick of me...

Hovo

[imported_Fadix]

Answering this message.


I don't think anyone likes having his words getting twisted. Reread one more time what I wrote. I have not said I have read all of them, but rather all of the major works, which is quite different.

Having said that, I don't believe this makes of me, someone that has no life. There are people that spend hundreds of dollars collecting Star Wars trilogy materials, and reading the hundreds of magazines and publications about it. Others get interested at reading every single work one might write about World War II in his own language. People like this, you'll find in the hundreds in the Wikipedia community(that I am part of).

It is true, that more I read, and more I am convinced, I am at a point that I do not believe a genocide happened, but I know it happened. I can't help it, while we have Dadrians as Armenian authors, we have Guruns as Turkish authors. In one cases it is documenting an event, in another, it is wasting entire chapters and works trying to "prove" that Armenians never existed at first, or that Eastern Anatolia has never been Armenians homeland.

Or better yet, Ataov, who wrote a big deal of trash, regarding Armenians having exterminated Jews, when statistics(Ottoman) demonstrate that in what was called Ottoman Armenia there hardly was more than 2,000 Jews, and which the number was left untouched.

What do you want me to say? More I have read revisionist materials, more I found them ridiculous, because we don't only find academic dishonesty, but as well complete lies. Halacoglu, the new circus clown is a typical example here. He allegedly studied 15 thousand documents, and the result of his study was a booklet which I have read, empty crap. Hilberg to write his three volumes(amounting about two thousand pages) regarding the history of the Holocaust, hasn't used that much new materials. And Halacoglu even claims having studied that much in 1.5 years, not even being able to give birth to a book from that much materials. How do you expect me to believe anything coming from the revisionist sides, when Halacoglu presently is their “leader”?

Of course, there are Western scholars that support your theses. But who they really are? The first that really introduced this theses to the West, was Stanford Shaw and his Turkish wife Ezel Kural. Shaw other than the fact that he once was McCarthys professor, is a dishonest charlatan that plagiarized the books of Uzun Jarsoglu to write his "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey," a book he claimed to be the result of his life work. How could it be, when he literally plagiarized it? The guy is even a record holder by receiving a record number of ARIT grants from Ankara. As for McCarthy, I won't even start, as I won't know how to stop.

Coming to the issue of Armenians having killed Turks. Incidences during wars happen. How many times do you read about Reichstag fire, and the consequences of the fire in Germany? Do you often read any materials, where it is mentioned to justify the decision against the European Jewry? Or what about the Jewry declaration of economic war against Germany? What about the Ghettos armed resistance? Just the fact that you even try to inject Turkish casualties caused by Armenians, it shows how you can't even conceive the extend of the Armenian tragedy. While you shout Armenian rebellion and killing against the Turks, you don't even take the time to think: “How come, if Armenians represented the threat I believe they were representing, there are no any instances recorded, where Armenians were able to resist their evacuation. Not a single cases.” Even Musa Dagh, had the allied ships not saved them, they were about to be butchered like sheep's.

Were you aware that the “Forty days of Musa Dagh” was one of the books banned by Nazi Germany? Were you aware that the book was the references used when organizing revolts in the Jewish Ghettos during the second war? In February 1943, Mordecai Tannenbaum, an “inmate” of the Vilna Ghetto was sent with others to organize Bialystok's resistance. The record of one of the meetings organizing the revolt reads: “Only one thing remains for us: to organize collective resistance in the ghetto, at any cost; to consider the ghetto our Musa Dagh , to write a proud chapter of Jewish Bialystok and our movement into history.” (Source: “Anthology of Holocaust Literature” by Mordecai Bernstein, Adah B. Fogel, Jacob Glatstein, Israel Knox, Samuel Margoshes; Jewish Publication Society of America, 1969)

Musa Dagh is our historic success, what was it afteral? A pathetic resistance until the ships arrives and the inhabitants escaped their fate. The Armenians didn't even managed to defend their land from the Turkish nationalist forces attack and how the Nationalists moved through Alexandripole. In that regard, the first Armenian republic that erupted at that time, didn't even had a hundred thousand soldiers in it's army.

Now, the most important issue, and it is regarding the human tragedy. It is true that each death is a tragedy in itself and need an acknowledgment. And the same price should be pied. But, again and again..., you fail to understand. THIS IS ABOUT THE MURDER OF A NATION. A PEOPLE WAS forcibly removed from its homeland, where they lived for 3 millennium, and were marched to the interior, butchered, murdered, rapped and destroyed. There is not a single Armenian living in what was called Ottoman Armenia. Zero Armenians. You accuse Armenians of their own fate. Yet, the danger you want to make of them can't even hold water, when considering, that the armed power you claim them to have been, weren't even able to secure the soil of Russian Armenia which was outside of the Ottoman Empire. Think about that, the Ottoman forces even reached Alexandripole. Armenians not only were not able to keep the borders of Russian Armenia, but were even not able to resist their own evacuations. Even Zeytoon, the city, where Armenians were reported to be the most armed and powerful didn't resist. In fact, Zeytoon Armenians were the first to be evacuated without any resistance.

What is sick, is that you don't and won't even realize how your arguments are weak, you even ask how sure I can be that Armenians haven't killed half a million. DUDE TAKE DEMOGRAPHIC MAPS OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE. Now concentrate on Ottoman Armenia, had the Armenians killed that much, using the 1/3 ratio often used. It would have involved 1.5 million Turks..., the Armenians would have taken as far as Ankara, had they had the power to kill that much people. But not only were they not able to preserve a single pieces of Ottoman Armenia, but they have actually lost pieces of Russian Armenia, and have lost every single other lands which were disputed between Azerbaijan, Armenia and Georgia. Turkey later even comploted with the Bolshevics to get Natchikevan and Nagorno Karabakh as part of Soviet Azerbaijan, while Azerbaijan had officially recognized them as part of Soviet Armenia.

They have destroyed Armenia, Armenians and are responsible of the current Karabakh conflict, and yet deny the genocide. And then, you wonder why Armenians here are angry when you come here and deny the darkest chapter of the Armenian history. Had you come here and only said: I recognize. Finish and end of the story. Nothing more, it would have been fine and acceptable for most Armenians. But this is not what you did. Don't expect me to respect you when you don't respect us. And above all, don't expect to be respected, when you still believe that possibility of half a million Turks killed by the Armenians, when Ahmed Emin, by using the figure of 150,000 Muslim(Turks included), for the entire period through 1923; was easy-easy, realizing that it sounds like exaggeration, when he tried to make it more credible by declaring that that much were killed because of the Armenians, rather than Armenians having directly killed them.

But even after being an Armenian hater, this same Emin(the same that ordered destructions of Ottoman archival materials implicating Ottoman officials in the murder of Armenians) wrote in his work that the decision against the Armenians was for the Ittihadist leaders an order of destruction.

Having said all this, let get back to the Muslim refugees. I have never said that Muslim refugees did not suffer. I merely said that what Armenians went trough was the worst tragedy the region has known. And I am not saying this because I am an Armenian. There is a distinction between being kicked out, and restricted to leave. The Muslim refugees were permitted to escape for the most part, while Armenians were not. As soon as November 1914, 124 criminals were released from Pimian prison prepared, the number of criminals released from the prisons to form the second Teshkilati Mahsusa was in the tens of thousands to be sent to escort the Armenian refugees sent in the camps in the Arabian desert. This process was so well planned, that the commission formed to investigate the number of people killed was able to get hold of technical records to get an accurate figure placed on Jemals own Bureau's table.

---

In conclusion..., all of this above, explains why I shall not respect you, and call you a dehumanized psychotic individual. I can't help it. As for my health, don't worry about it, you should instead worry about your mental health.

[imported_Fadix]

WHERE IS MY ANSWER???? SHOW US HOW MANY ARMENIANS WERE LIVING IN OTTOMAN EMPIRE IN 1915????? still silence come on hovik-tongue,fadix..this is a very simple question!!! ))))))))))

Ape, I'm the author of Wikipedia entry regarding Ottoman Armenian population, and have written dozens of pages of analysis regarding it.

This might be a start. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman...ian_Population

But I doubt you have any reading comprehention skills.

[imported_Fadix]

Keep wasting your life with this ridiculous obsession of yours Fadix, write chapters on it, and see if I care.. I don't have to join this forum to make you happy, and recognize whatever you tell me to recognize...I don't think you can ever be happy anyway...

Mr. ding dong, no one asked you to join this forum, you came here, registered and decided to make an arse of yourself by denying an event that you haven't studied in the first place, because you're a pathetic racist denying the destruction of a nation. I have news for you Mr. Ding Dong, Germany few days ago recognised its responsability over the Armenian genocide. I guess there are some nations that are integer enough and which do not suffer of inferiority complex that can recognize their own crimes or responsabilities.

As for obsession... and this comming from a person that is the member of a nation that is obsessed with a man made god, to a point that there actually is a law in your nations penal code called: "Crimes against Ataturk."

"We owe respect to the living but to the dead, only truth." -- Voltaire

I rest my cases with you.

PS: Again, don't forget, Zyprexa or Risperdal can help you.

[imported_Hellektor]

For the millionth time....

I am not sure if these satisfies you. No need to mention they don't refer to the Eastern part of Anatolia as "Eastern Anatolia", but they do refer to the Land that occupies that geograpy as Anatolia. But don't insist, I can find many documents that refer to the Eastern Anatolia as Eastern Anatolia as you might guess...

I have tried to accept you as more or less an honest person. I hope you are not trying to twist what I say. It appears either you don't read my replies carefully or you want to annoy me. You know better which one is the case. I have never said the WHOLE REGION wasn't called Asia Minor or Anatolia, even as an example I said Asia is the name of a continent and there are countries in that continent that have names like China, Iran, India, Pakistan, etc. They aren't called Eastern Asia, Middle Asia, Northern Asia, etc.
I said if you can find a historic document that refers to Armenia as "Eastern Anatolia" then I'd like to see it. I said this a million times and you guys keep on calling Armenia "Eastern Anatolia" which I find offensive.... Let's end this here because I have found out that your brainwash is incurable.

One last think, that clay tablet of Babylon, mentions Urartu not Armenia. I remember that we came to conclusion that the Urartu's were not Indo-European speaking hence not the Armenians (in terms of your logic though, not mine!). It is like claiming that the Lydians now speaking Turkish are Turk, hence any historical document that refers to Lycia refers to Turks as well( again in your logic, for me both are true! )

I have also dealt with this issue time and again. I have told you what I think of the whole Indo-European thing that has become a tool in your hands. So let's hopelessly paste the part of my post which answers this. And to clarify further: Iran was called Persia in the past, but it's the same country and the people, though having gone through much more changes than Armenians, they are still considered the LEGITIMATE heirs of the Achaemenids. And for the thousandth time: We don't even call our country Armenia or Urartu. Never have. you just "can and will never" get the point so let's end this here as well.

"The whole Indo-European crap has become a tool in your hands to claim everything considered non- Indo-European (and some) Turkish. I talk about this in the Waltons and Daltons story too. It’s not that simple and nothing is sure about the Aryan myth. There are just theories. I am 100% sure that the Armenian language developed in Armenia. If you can bring a proof that the Armenian language originated somewhere else then I’d like to see it too.
To elaborate this so that you don’t bring the Indo-European/Aryan subject to deny our ancestry: I think you agree that our knowledge of the reality of people living say 5000 years ago is far less than that of 3000 and that in turn is far less than that of 1000 years ago.
What is known of the Urartian language is only the cuneiform tablets where the kings ordered their feats to be recounted. Some are in Khaldian (Urartian, a Hurrian related language) others in Accadian. My source tells me: “of all the living languages, Armenian is the closest in terms of vocabulary”. It goes on to give examples of words that mean the same and sound similar in both languages. Unlike a ridiculous Turkish study where a “professor” presents a list of words he claims to be the “Urartian glossary” and for every word he cites a Turkish/Persian/Arabic word that SOUNDS more or less similar (regardless of the meaning) and “concludes” the Urartian language to be originated from Turkish! If I had to reason like this “scholar” I could take this whole text and find an Armenian word that remotely or otherwise sounds like every word in it and claim that English comes from Armenian. Isn’t this absurd?
My source also tells me there are theories that argue there is a super-language family that includes this language along with Indo-European, Semitic, Ural-Altaic, Caucasian and Dravidian subgroups. The facts are sketchy. Inaccurate theories are all we have and some are used for political reasons to “prove” that the indigenous Armenians are comers and the nomadic Turkish invaders were civilized people 90000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000 years ago."

By the way, in the trilingual inscription in Baghastana (Bistoon), near Kermanshah, he calls Armenia: Armina in Old Persian, Harmina in Elamite and Urashtu (Urartu) in Accadian.

[imported_Hellektor]

No help will cure brain damage part One

Tarik(is that your name?), don't be offended by my sarcastic remarks, you have to sometimes read the comments that lead to those reactions. Reading your posts in the Armenian forums, I have understood that the shrewdness/cunning character we attribute to the Turks doesn't come from the air. You always twist my words and quote whatever you like to attack me when you cannot confront the truth. When I respond sarcastically you pretend to be "offended" and attack me again. Just read your FIRST sentence from your FIRST post in my reply and for ONE SECOND be HONEST and judge for yourself.

Hellektor:

One thing for sure is that you need to seek the help of a psychiatrist who enjoys a challenge, really!

"One thing for sure is that" your nickname unconsciously points to the fact that it's YOU who needs "to seek the help of a psychiatrist" that loves money, because no amount of help will cure the lobotomy you underwent growing up (don't be offended).

Thanks a lot for the detailed information about your kings, your magnificient history, maps,etc... Very informative..

You're welcome. Its "good" to see (for Erdogans of this world at least) the "informativeness" hasn't done a bit to cure your brain damage by your system.

But, please remember that it is past now..

YOU KILLED AND THREW AN ENTIRE NATION OUT OF THEIR THOUSANDS YEAR HOMELAND. YOU AREN’T SPARING ANY EFFORT TO DESTROY ALL THE HISTORIC MONUMENTS OF THAT PEOPLE AND YOU EVEN CHANGE THE NAME OF THEIR COUNTRY. THIS IS CALLED GENOCIDE AND YOU HAVE TO FACE IT IN ORDER FOR EVERYONE TO MOVE FORWARD. OTHERWISE THE WOUNDS WILL NEVER HEAL.

You cannot go on like this and make unbelievable demands (such as giving Eastern Anatolia to Armenia including ports in Black Sea Coast)..

Oh yes, don't worry. We damn well "can and will" go on like this and make LEGAL and LEGITIMATE demands, because we have a contract in our hands that gives us the right to do it (not to speak of reparations for the Armenian Genocide). Once again from a previous post about the treaties of Sèvres and Lausanne:

"However, you should know that for the time being the Armenians want the region that was decided upon by the legally binding treaty of Sèvres in August 10, 1920. The representatives of both the Armenian and Ottoman governments put their signatures under it, along with Britain, France, Italy, Japan, Belgium, Greece and the other countries victorious in the WWI.
The treaty of Lausanne imposed on Armenians, totally disregarded their existence. Since Armenia had lost its independence to the Soviets and didn't have a representative, this "treaty" should be shredded after its contents are printed on toilet paper."

There are Turks who look at the maps during the Ottoman period, and think that all the lands should be under Turkish rule again.. So, you go back 3,000 years..How about 4,000-5,000 years back?

You are not the indigenous people of the land you occupy. The death and destruction you brought to the region is well documented in countless history books in many languages. You can not have any claims to lands of people you killed and threw out just 90 years ago, not 4,000 or 5,000.

Also you think you're insulting Turks by calling them nomadic, mongoloid, etc.. I have to say it is very banal of you to resort to name calling..Human beings have been migrating to other lands since the beginning of time.

HUMAN BEINGS?
Let me not "insult" you touchy brutes with my bitterness and sarcasm for a change and read the following by Grigor of Akner, a 13th-14th century historian who describes your grandpaws when he saw them for the first time:

"Let us say some more about what these first Tatars resembled. The first who came against our country were not like people. They were awful to see and impossible to describe. They had large heads, like a buffalo, narrow eyes like a chick, short noses like a cat, protruding chins like a dog, narrow waists like an ant, and short legs like a pig. They are completely beardless, possessing the strength of a lion and a screeching voice like an eagle. They appear unexpectedly. Their women have attractive hats covered with a brocade shawl on top and broad faces smeared with a deadly pine medicine. They give birth like snakes, and eat like wolves. Death does not appear among them, and so they can live for three hundred years. Such were the folk who came first to the upper land. They never eat bread."

Ever wondered how you lost these features in such short time? You stole our genes by stealing and raping our women and children for centuries. Unfortunately one feature, your brain, hasn't developed in all this time...

MIGRATING?
I have already quoted Aristakes Lastivertsi several times, since you're new, read and enjoy the tale of the "migration" of your earliest ancestors, the Seljuks or the Oghuz Turks:
“Yet [the Saljuqs] totally stripped and pillaged whatever we had, even though we had done nothing to them…they mercilessly threw the corpses of many people to the carnivorous beasts…Mercilessly setting fire to the homes and churches wherein refugees had fled, [the Saljuqs] burned them down, considering this a benevolent act...Such is your wicked history, oh city, blessed and venerable, full [of good things], renowned among the lands. Raise now your eyes and observe your children led into slavery, your babies hurled mercilessly against rocks, your young people burned by fire, the respect-worthy and glorious elderly folk fallen in the squares, your fresh and prosperous virgins and women fallen in disgrace, led away into slavery on foot... We have written only about what we saw with our own eyes, and about the wicked things we ourselves experienced.”

I don't believe that you can own any land just because you were there before others. You cannot own nature..

I don't believe you can invade say England and subjugate the people, kill and rape and pillage and plunder and use and abuse them for a thousand years. Then when you don't need them anymore, kill 'em all and throw the rest out of their homeland and call their country "Northwestern xxxxxxolia" or something and destroy all their monuments and instead of showing the least amount of remorse, give them the sort of advice you give in the above sentence.

However, I agree with the second part of the same paragraph:

Unfortunately, this world operates based on force, power. If you are powerful enough, you rule.. This is of course not the ideal case, but it is the status quo..

Therefore, now you're bitter since Turks had more military power and they ruled.

More brutality and slyness. Recruiting all the young men and cunningly executing them, then sending all the women, children and elderly to the desert to roast, doesn't have anything to do with military power. In unequal circumstances we have beaten you. Just think of Sardarabad or Artsakh (I know you dream that Armenians were helped by the Russians but if you only knew how much damage the Russians did to the Armenians in your favor you would think twice).

I am sure if the Armenians had continued to have the full support of Russia, or other Western powers during WWI (had enogh power), then they would go ahead annihilate most of the Turkish population in Eastern Anatolia.. I don't think they would even consider deporting them, they would just finish what they have started..

Look how slyly insolent and offensive you are and you expect me to be polite!
I have said a million times that you think like a Turk therefore you are a Turk, let's also say since you are a Turk you PRESUME like a Turk and no amount of reasoning will change the way you think. Your brain damage is beyond remedy.

[imported_Hellektor]

No help will cure brain damage part Two

But actually this is not the point I am trying to make. The thing is people need to deal with the past at a more mature and constructive manner. We can argue all day long about who did what, but this will get us nowhere..

No comment.

I am originally from Erzurum (a city in Eastern Anatolia). Even though I was hearing the stories on how the Armenian mobs massacred the Turks, I still did not hate any Armenians.. And a lot of people around me had the same feelings. Because, I knew that Armenians were also suffering greatly..

Erzurum…A city in pillaged and plundered Armenia…
During WWII more Germans died than Jews, but no one calls that genocide. During the same war TWENTY SEVEN MILLION Russians died but that's not considered genocide... but to quote you: "We can argue all day long about who did what, but this will get us nowhere.."

Honestly, I still think that Turkey would have been a much better place if we had had managed to live in peace together. Unfortunately, it didn't hapen, and the fault is not completely at the Turkish or Armenian side.. I would have loved to have Armenian friends when I was living in Erzurum for instance.. When I was living in Turkey, I used to listen to some Armeanian music, learn more about the culture.. I even visited Ani.. Moreover, I was and still am against Turkish nationalists who argue Armenians are the evil

I have had Turkish friends and neither I nor the great majority of Armenians believe or have ever believed that ALL Turks are evil, but you HAVE to face the fact that Turks committed a horrible genocide and they still continue this crime by denying it and by destroying our monuments, a point you never seem to pay attention to.

I feel extremely sorry for the people who had to leave their home, and were forced to continue their lives somewhere else where they don't know the language, culture.. But, Turkish people experienced the same, and I feel like you don't have any sympathy towards other people who went throught similar sufferings..

The first part is positive but you don't seem to get that you cannot blame the entire WWI Turkish casualties on a handful of Armenian fighters who decided to defend their lives in a war that was the consequence of German/Ottoman vanity, rather than bend their necks like sheep to your scimitars. Your brainwash upbringing has twisted your way of thinking so much that you cannot see things clearly and I can't change this.

To tell the truth, before I came to US, I had very positive feelings towards Armenians as I told above..However, since I have been in US and seen how fanatic some Armenians can be, I am regrettably changing my views..People like you Hellektor, don't let me be sorry for other nations' sufferings.. Your kind is a big thick wall that we need to get over before anything can be done to better the relations..I still hope relations between the two nations can improve, if both sides can just stop listening to people like you Hellektor.

Once again: YOU KILLED MY PEOPLE AND YOU ARE OCCUPYING MY COUNTRY AND YOU ARE DESTROYING ALL OUR HISTORIC MONUMENTS AND YOU HAVE CHANGED THE NAME OF MY COUNTRY AND YOU ARE DENYING EVERYTHING and you want us to love you for what you did to us. You don't show any remorse for the most horrible things your "big thick wall kind" did to us and no amount of reasoning will ever change your views.

I sincerely hope some Armenians who are following this forum will agree with me, so that I would hold on to my beliefs that things can improve..

best wishes,

Tarik

I hopelessly "hope" that the next generation of Turkish people will have more democracy and their system of upbringing will make them see things more objectively, so that they can face their past and evolve from the "nomadic" Stone Age state they're still being kept in.

Best Wishes too.

[imported_Fadix]

What do you want me to do, consider you like a dumb and explain you why I have proposed you to consult? Look dude, you come here and log by calling yourself "helpneeded." I guess the first sign of recovery is understanding that one really need help, but in your cases it seems you do not follow your own name.

And let me make this another important point more clearer for you. I do not ask you to accept what I know to be the truth; because I know that your blinded and perverted nationalism is beyond cure. What I am asking you is simply to stop acting as lower than the lowest form of life by denying a genocide and reverting the role of victims and aggressors. I don't believe this is a hard thing to do for a healthy human being.

Am I generalizing? Well yes! Questioning a social construct, when a group of society(another social construct) adhere to it might be considered as a generalization. I don't believe there is anything wrong in doing this.

The construction of the new Turkish identity is based on suppression, what do you want me to tell you? Tell you that you are welcome to bash my orphaned grandparents that have lost everything they possessed and whom were among the lucky that were able to survive? You may in daily and personal bases feel remorse, pity or compassion. About daily tragedies, but this is as person. But when it is about your collective conscience you are unable of neither of those. This is what I call one of the conditions for a mass psychosis to happen, and this is a known phenomena when a collectivity is forced to adhere to an homogeneous ideology. You are obsessed with the Image of the Kemalistic Turkish republic, and you'll do everything to preserve it... and this no matter what, and no matter of if it is moral or not. You as a YOU, can not differentiate yourself from the collectivity and judge this event like any other events that concerns the YOU of your nation and other nations, or at least a conscience examination.

For this reason, any effort is worthless, time wasted..., in trying to make you understand that your position is the one of an insane mind, a dehumanized lowest form of animal that find pleasure in considering the lives of peoples as a ball game.

The drug thing again..., I have proposed to a few to be medicated because of their behaviors, you're one of them. To those I have proposed to do so, some were even Armenians, and some were neither Armenians or Turks. I don't see how my knowledge of drugs discredit me in anyway..., I know pretty well the about 90 most prescribed drugs by their mechanism of action, side effects, interactions with other medications. Another hobby, which is more closer to my recent field of study. Do you want to have the color of my underwears as well, or know that I am obsessed enough to read about the temperature I should wash them, or if Arctic Power is a better option than Tide.

Oh again... I repeat, don't forget, Zyprexa or Risperdal might help.

Exactly, I have decided to come to this forum by myself, noone asked me to. What I said was that you are asking me to recognize what you believe is true. I don't need to accept the views of senior members like yourself, when I join a forum..
And maybe you need to contact the moderator and tell him/her to conduct a test to everyone before joining the forum to measure the level of their knowledge on this issue (of course the questions/answers will be from your references)..

You don't have to update me on the news as well.. Go and celebrate Germany's decision tonight, it might be a good change for you.. This day job of yours must be exhausting..

And I am talking about your sick personal obsession.. and you start talking about Ataturk and again generalize a whole nation while calling me a pathetic racist! You are losing it Fadix..

And enough with those drugs, we all got it, you're an expert on that matter as well, probably through using them for a long time...

Finally, thank God you rest your cases with me! You made my day..