Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[Tongue]

Armenians killed many muslims and they started it months ago fromm deportation.

Months ago? How about years ago from the deprtation. How many Armenians did Sultan kill?

so - called armenian genocide is a mental need for armenians..to accuse someone else is always better than accusing your self..its impossible for armenians to admitt that yes we were looking for independence and the turks were trying to survive..it was a gamble and we lost!!! I HAVE ONE SIMPLE QUESTION TO TURKS WHO WRITE HERE..IF TALAT PASA DIDNT DEPORT ARMENIANS FROM ANATOLIA HOW MANY MUSLIMS COULD SURVIVE AFTER THE SEVRES????? REMEMBER BALKANS AND ( I DO REMEMBER VERY VERY WELL) AND FIND THE ANSWER.…

Ridiculous question. Many Turkish Muslims died fighting Arab Muslims who were also seeking freedom and independence from the Ottoman government. Many Turkish Muslims again died fighting Indian Muslims who were with the British Middle East army in Mesopotamia. You’re making this sound like Armenians since they were Christians were responsible for all the Muslim blood lost in the Ottoman Empire. How come you never speak of Arab Muslims and their battle for independence? Ottoman Empire had a population of over 25 million, Armenians only consisted of a little over 2 million. Are you saying that this two million, half of which were women, children, and the old, were gonna kill all these Muslims if they weren’t “deported” ?

I don’t know what in the world you were taught, but it is far from the truth. Yes, Armenians fought back and killed turks, it was in self-defense. Yes, Armenians wanted independence, no one’s denying that. But have you asked yourself, why was it that they wanted independence so badly? That they weren’t being treated fairly. That they were being killed in groups left and right. That throughout the 20 year period from 1890-1910, 300,000 Armenians were massacred. Were you taught about the Massacres in Sassoun in from August 21st to September 4th, 1894? Does December 38, 1895 in Urfa ring a bell? Were you taught about the thirty thousand Armenians massacred in1909 at Adana and in other parts of Cilicia? Yes Armenians fought back and killed Turks whenever they could. Yes, they wanted independence. WHO WOULDN’T?

At the beginning, Turks themselves confessed the genocide. Mustafa Kemal Pasha Ataturk said in a 1926 interview with a Swiss reporter that the Young Turks "should be made to account for the lives of millions of our Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse from their homes and massacred. . . ." . Later on the denial started…. Armenians have their own country and have demands now. Lets erase or better yet, rewrite the history so we won’t be held accountable for what happened to them. Lets close the border and make them forget the genocide if they want to survive. Lets put economic pressure on their country until they promise to no longer speak of the genocide again! Even better, lets create another version of what happened. Lets come up with some 523,000 Turks names killed in their own country by those 2 million Armenian minorities!! The timing? Between 1910 and 1922. Which means, they were actually never deported since they killed so many turks during their deportation years. Good one. Lets get as ugly as we can so we can reject all the claims of compensation they have.

[Kharpert]

why didnt ottomans kiill or asimilate armenians just before 1800s???

That's like asking why Germany didn't kill Jews before the 1900s. It wasn't the time or place. 1915 was the perfect time for the means, will, and motive to start a genocide.

they know how to make ethnic cleansing very very well

Okay, I invite you to come live in Armenia. You, as a Turk, could choose between living in Armenia or living where you are now. Would you move to live in Armenia? No, you wouldn't. That's why Armenia is so devoid of Turks and Georgians. No one is forcing them to come to Armenia, and no one wants to come. Armenia didn't throw anyone out...it's just no one decided to go there.

[Tongue]

IF TALAT PASHA DIDNT DEPORT ARMENIANS NOW THERE WILL BE NO MUSLIM (TURKISH OR KURDISH) LIVING IN ANATOLIA..

And the clown has once again made an intellectual post!

In order for your claim to be true, every Armenian (little kids, women, and the elderly) had to kill 13 turks (that's if the population of Armenians was 2 million) BUT you're claiming that it wasn't and it was only 1.3 million, so I guess every Armenian would have to kill 20 Turks! We sure were strong Samurais.

Next time, think before you speak... ahhhh, nevermind, that requires brain, which you don't have.

AND I KNOW THE ANSWER OF MY OWN QUESTION

There you go, you have a hobby now! Keep asking questions and answering them yourself. And give youself extra credit points when you get the answer right.

[Kharpert]

Armenians did enroll in the Russian and French armies, but they did so as citizens of those nations. In that case, Armenians did kill Turks, but under the orders of another nation. The Armenians were not "tools" of any nation. If there were any Armenian vigilante groups in 1915, it was not inspired by any foreign nation. And most lived very peacefully in Ottoman Turkey, with no ill will towards Turks.

I'm leading to one very precise point: The Young Turks attempted to eliminate the Armenian people, ALL of the Armenian people, with absolutely no mercy, and by any means possible.

[Tongue]

when armenians attacked van their leader was a member of the ottoman parliament..

Just like Kharpert said, half of the Armenian nation was under the Ottoman Empire and the other half under the Russian rule. When the war started, Armenians in Russia joined the Russian army just like the Armenians in Ottoman Empire joined the Ottoman army. You keep mentioning Van like a parrot without knowing what really went down, so here it is:


Van, the ancient capital of the Armenian Ardzruni dynasty was ocupied by the Russian army in its advance in the Caucasus during the first week of May 1915. The Russian commander Gen. Oganesov, who was an Armenian was assisted with 6 men from the Armenian revolutionary, Andranig's group and the rest were Russian regulars. But long before Van fell to the Russians, Jevded Pasha started the work of massacring the Armenian population of Van.

The massacre began at Shadokh, a large and isolated village, where not a man was spared except those over 60 years of age. Of the women, the more comely were carried away by Jevded's soldiers and Kurd tribeamon. The massacre was carried out systematically in the entire province of Van beginning with the outlying villages. Great care was taken to prevent rumors of this from reaching the capital.

There was living in Van city at that time Prince Ishkham, an Armenian who had been useful to the government in settling troubles between the Turks and the Armenians. He was asked by Jevded to go to the village and try to reconcile the contending parties. Jevded addressed the prince in a letter as his "dear friend". The prince, unaware of the plot, started out with a number of advisers. The entire party was slaughtered by a party of Jevded's horsemen while taking lunch at a coffee house.

At this time also there was in Van an Armenian member of the Turkish parliament by the name of Vramian, who was invited by Jevded to call on him at headquarters. On arrival at headquarters Vramian was arrested, a large stone was tied to his feet and he was thrown into a lake and drowned.

The Russians were now reported on the advance. Talaat Bey published a warning against the Armenians participation on a penalty of dre punishment. But the story of the massacre in the isolated parts was carried by survivors and the Armenians prepared to sell themselves as dearly as possible, the peaceful element as well as the revolutionaries. Jevded hen called on the Armenian bishop to visit him. The bishop refused. Thereupon Jevded descended upon the "rebellious" city of Van with an army of 8,000 Turks and Kurds and called on the phone to lay down their arms, surrender without conditions and trust to the clemency of the sultan. This offer was made through the Italian consul.

Of the 50,000 Armenians in Van, only 450 were armed-250 with rifles and the rest with revolvers. For twenty-nine days this handful defended the city. On the thirtieth day Gen. Oganesov arrived with his Armenian volunteers and Rusian regulars and the Turks retreated.

Conditions were at that time frightful as the only doctor in the city to look after the sick and wounded had been Dr. Allen, An American missionary. But with the Russians came help and doctors and nurses soon arrived from Tiflis. Committees were appointed to aid the sufferers, and the peasants started to fill the fields and rebuilt their homes.


This information was published in "The Duluth Herald" on Friday, October 8, 1915.

So thank God for Gen. Oganesov and his Russian army and Armenian volunteers, if they hadn't arrived, the entire Armenian population of Van would have been wiped out by the army of turks and kurds.



So next time you wanna mention Van, think twice!

[1.5 million]

tongue....what about killed and tortured 30000 muslims of the van??? never heard of them??? PROBABLY NOT

no doubt because it never happened...

[1.5 million]

kharpet....u have to keep on reading some independent books in order to learn history..when armenians attacked van their leader was a member of the ottoman parliament..how can u consider deportees of zeytun; who joined the french legion; as french citizens??

Just when did Armenians "attack Van" - I am not familiar with this history - did it perhaps occur in 1258 when it was a Seljuk city or some such? Again I find it odd that you reference supposed historical events that to my knowledge never happened.

And regarding Armenians from Zeytun or otherwise who might have joined the French Foreign legion - well who might blame then...considering...

[Tongue]

At all times, Turks and Azerbaijanis were exposed to genocide on the part of the Armenians.

Yeaaahhhhh riiiiiiiight......
So if I start denying the genocide, will you refer to me as a scholar too?

schol·ar
n.

1. a) A learned person. b) A specialist in a given branch of knowledge: a classical scholar.
2. One who attends school or studies with a teacher; a student.
3. A student who holds or has held a particular scholarship.

Can you guys see how Erich Feigl meets all three parts of the definition! hahaha

[Tongue]

Tongue,
I'm not convinced you are knowledgable and educated enough to be considered a scholar. However, I could call you an objective, conscientious Armenian that listens to reason.

Oh ofcouse not, I'm not knowledgable enough about my own history and people but the Austrian film maker/director "Prof." Erich Feigl, who claims that Armenians were killing Turks throughout history, is. But I truely believe once I graduate school with an accounting degree and start denying the genocide, your turkish papers will refer to me as a scholar too!

And I guess you'll never call me "objective" either, since denying the genocide is not a path I'm willing to take no matter how much "they" paid me...

PS Mr. objective, why did you choose the user name you did?

[1.5 million]

we are good at forgetting bad memories...we are very very good at forgiving....BUT if we have to remember what your ''civilised innocent'' ancestors did yes we can remember!!!

You are good at forgetting - willfully so - that I will agree...what you are not good at is owning up to past mistakes. In fact your acts of "forgetfulness" earn you a place as perpetrator of Genocide. I suggest St Johns Wort.