Hezbollah

[Haykakan]

Re: Hezbollah

I know this question was not directed at me but i would like to say that a great way we can help our country is to go there and try to be as much a part of it as we can.Most people in the diaspora havent even been to hayastan (some of the biggest self proclaimed hayrenasers).Forming bonds In our homeland with our people, our history/culture and even nature is the greatest feeling you will have. This connection will benefit both you and the people of Hayastan.

[gmd]

Re: Hezbollah

Armenian, you raise an important point here:

You, I and every other self-respecting Armenian in the diaspora has the obligation to promote Armenia to compensate for our lack of resources. We, the grass roots of the surviving diaspora, have to take it upon ourselves to promote Armenia. Figure out how you can participate in promoting Armenian interests.

In what ways do you believe tangible contributions can be made by Armenians worldwide? Keeping in mind the diversity of Armenians do you have more then one recommendation so that involvement can be on a wider scale and focused on multiple fronts?

[Armenian]

Re: Hezbollah

I did not say the Armenian government must control the lives of the Diaspora Armenians, but they can promote the Armenian heritage, culture and history by way of ''propaganda'' (telling the truth, whereas Turkey is telling lies as propaganda). Turkey and Israel (ofcourse not comparable with our budget) both have a strong connection with their Diaspora, both having a huge propaganda-information-machine...

Enker, this is what I mean by you sounding silly. You are comparing Armenia, a tiny, resourceless, impoverished, landlocked, embattled nation in the Caucasus with Turkey and Israel?!?!?!

This is ludicrous.

Did you realize that Turkey has one of the biggest economies in the world. Turkey is Europe's China. Istanbul hosts the world's fourth largest group of 'Billionaires' - after Moscow, New York and London. The Turkish army is the second largest in Europe, second only to Russia. And don't even attempt to bring up the Zionist State in comparison to Armenia.

Damn. What is wrong with you Armenians???

Who else but Armenia herself can attract the Diaspora Armenians? Thus I believe it is the task of the Armenian government to promote our cultural heritage, to promote repatriation (to involve in the communities of the Armenia Diaspora) and when they fail in this important aspect, the blaim is also on independent Armenia herself.

Leave the government in Armenia alone and let them do their jobs. Like I said, given our resources, they will have a hard enough time protecting our borders. You, I and every other self-respecting Armenian in the diaspora has the obligation to promote Armenia to compensate for our lack of resources. We, the grass roots of the surviving diaspora, have to take it upon ourselves to promote Armenia. Figure out how you can participate in promoting Armenian interests.

I totally disagree that a nation's government is a reflection of the nation. A lot of government's in the world came in power through force and corruption, not by the will of the people. Armenia deserves the best politician. There are a lot of ''obvious'' things our government neglects or does wrong,

Generally speaking, governments are a reflection of the people they rule over. This does not apply to situations like Iraq where governmental change was brought upon by foreigners by the use of force. Take a close look at various other nations, Turkey, Russia, EU, India, USA, Britain, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and you shall see that in essence the rulers reflect the very nature and character of the people they rule over. So, yes. Our corrupt oligarchs and our ignorant politicians reflect the current state of our people's character.

I wonder if you read the articles of Dr. Armen Ayvazyan?

I know him personally. I have great respect for him. Although he engages in "constructive criticisms" (something Armenians don't want to learn) of the Armenian government, he nevertheless would love to land a position with the current government; and he considers Levon Ter Petrosian a treasonous criminal as well.

Can you explain to me for example, why the government still does not have a ''plan'' as regards showing the map of Armenia/Artsakh?

The map of Artsakh is a major global geopolitical issue, its outcome can have very serious consequences internationally. Realize that it took Russia, a nuclear superpower, close to twenty years to bring Abkhazia and South Ossetia back under its fold and its will probably take another twenty years if not more to bring Crimea back to Russia. And here we are acting big over Artsakh. If the global community really wanted to get Armenians out of Artsakh do you actually think Armenia could successfully refuse? Anyway, the Armenian government is not going to compromise serious diplomacy or/or political maneuvering just to satisfy your whims, however good intentioned they may be. It may one day come down to pulling back from some of the areas in Artsakh, maybe not. However, the final determinant will not be based on our wishes, nor will the final determination be made by you, I, or even the Armenian president. Take a close look at who and what we are in the world today. There are 'much bigger' and 'much more powerful' forces at play here. Little hint: Russia is the key to our success. As long as Moscow sees our Armenia as a strategically important ally Artsakh is not going anywhere, and it may even further increase in size. Nonetheless, we all need to hope for the best. However, I have no doubt that the current administration in Yerevan can be fully trusted to do the right thing regarding Armenia/Artsakh.

Why does the Armenian government fail to react to the ''Khojaly suicide-massacres'' by brining the slaughter forward in Baku and Sumgait?

One of the more obvious answers here is - complacency. We are the victors, we have Russia's backing, we enjoy good relations with Iran, we enjoy good relations with the EU and the US... So, in a sense, we don't care. I agree with you that the government should be more aggressive and proactive regarding these types of matters.

I heard Seyran Ohanyan lives in a small appartment in downtown Yerevan,

In my opinion, Seyran Ohanian deserves a palace. He is one of our 'very few' professional and seasoned warriors. My respects for Sargsyan to recognize this about Ohanian.

I do not think ''true nationalist'' can save up tens of millions of dollars like our president Serge Sarkisyan and Robert Kocharian (tsakhadzor resort, companies, restaurants, bank), living in a villa whereas other brothers and sisters live in small boxes where they have been living in for 20 years after the Gyumri earthquake. No, a true nationalist would give all his money building new homes for our poor brothers and sisters throughout Armenia.

Enker, you are still very young, inexperienced and naive. You still need to understand the world you live in. And I mean no offense by saying this. I was the same... You are talking about 'human' failings. The Nazis, the epitome of nationalism, were guilty of the same crimes. In relative terms, the same could be said of every single nation on earth today, including the best of the West. Men will be men, and regardless of ideology there will always be gluttony, greed, and corruption amongst rulers. Don't forget, rulers of a nation reflect the people of the nation. I have absolutely no problems with Sargsyan making millions, if not billions, due to his connections as president. If anyone should be filthy rich it should be the president.

And all those Armos in LA, Beirut or Yerevan that complain about Sargsyan/Kocharyan doing this and that - would be the first ones doing this and that if they were in power.

My advise, learn to accept/understand/deal with the corruptible nature of mankind, you'll be a much happier person for it.

And don't believe in the majority of the stupid rumors revolving about Sargsyan and Kocharyan. Armenians, as a people, love to 'gossip' and 'destructive' gossip is what they excel in.

Let's please end this conversation.

[Palavra]

Re: Hezbollah

The focus of this was not how Christianity was spread. Of course Christianity was spread by violence as well in many parts. But can you truly claim that Christianity was spread more violently than Islam? That is the point. Differences are in degrees, not kinds. Your defense of Islam is an uphill battle.

And I don't know what you are aiming for divulging your knowledge of the crusades. My only point was that the crusades were launched not for any imperialistic goal of spreading religion, or booty.

You realy dont know what was crusades do you. It was against to all non-christians.. That is why armenian mentioned northern europea. It was not only against muslims.

Maybe you should review your history of the crusades because you ignored how in Jerusalem prior to the crusades Christians were second class and persecuted. They were crucified, executed, and of course there was the jizya. Even WikiAnswers seems to have this:

They destiny was most probably better than muslims at Europea.

Anyway, Islamic nationes never built a joint force against non-believers(Unlike christians.) and we have not "missionaries". Just think again, who is more expansionist.

It is also interesting, largest muslim nation in world, choose islam without islamic occupation.(This is also true for majority Turks.)

I am not even talking, what christians did at africa and america.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Hezbollah

Armenian, I totally agree with you that the Diaspora Armenians also bring with them some dangers, ofcourse the diaspora must be handled with caution.

I did not say the Armenian government must control the lives of the Diaspora Armenians, but they can promote the Armenian heritage, culture and history by way of ''propaganda'' (telling the truth, whereas Turkey is telling lies as propaganda). Turkey and Israel (ofcourse not comparable with our budget) both have a strong connection with their Diaspora, both having a huge propaganda-information-machine. Who else but Armenia herself can attract the Diaspora Armenians? Thus I believe it is the task of the Armenian government to promote our cultural heritage, to promote repatriation (to involve in the communities of the Armenia Diaspora) and when they fail in this important aspect, the blaim is also on independent Armenia herself.

You are right, it takes time, Armenia must be stable first and must be able to feed her own citizens, but I think this can be accomplished sooner with the help of the Diaspora Armenians (and thus by attracting them).

I totally disagree that a nation's government is a reflection of the nation. A lot of government's in the world came in power through force and corruption, not by the will of the people. Armenia deserves the best politician. There are a lot of ''obvious'' things our government neglects or does wrong, I wonder if you read the articles of Dr. Armen Ayvazyan?

Can you explain to me for example, why the government still does not have a ''plan'' as regards showing the map of Armenia/Artsakh? Why does the Armenian government fail to react to the ''Khojaly suicide-massacres'' by brining the slaughter forward in Baku and Sumgait?


As I see it, the problem in Armenian politics today is - inexperience, incompetence and Bolshevik mindsets. This will changes with time. The changes, however, have to be homegrown, in other words not imported from the West. And such changes have to be gradual. The political environment in Armenia needs evolution not revolution.


Totally agree, a lot of current politicians are inexperienced. I heard Seyran Ohanyan lives in a small appartment in downtown Yerevan, I do not think ''true nationalist'' can save up tens of millions of dollars like our president Serge Sarkisyan and Robert Kocharian (tsakhadzor resort, companies, restaurants, bank), living in a villa whereas other brothers and sisters live in small boxes where they have been living in for 20 years after the Gyumri earthquake. No, a true nationalist would give all his money building new homes for our poor brothers and sisters throughout Armenia.

I'm a person from Gyumri and you can't use Gyumri to criticize the goverment or the people living there. you say that the rich don't do anything for the city or the people but that's very wrong. They do, the city is being rebuild step by step. And almost all of the people who have lost their home have gotten one. There are very little domics left. And most was build by the government and the rest was by the rich who wanted to help. Do you think it's cheap to build all those buildings. And why didn't you give all your money to help rebuilt he city?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Hezbollah

Armenian, I totally agree with you that the Diaspora Armenians also bring with them some dangers, ofcourse the diaspora must be handled with caution.

I did not say the Armenian government must control the lives of the Diaspora Armenians, but they can promote the Armenian heritage, culture and history by way of ''propaganda'' (telling the truth, whereas Turkey is telling lies as propaganda). Turkey and Israel (ofcourse not comparable with our budget) both have a strong connection with their Diaspora, both having a huge propaganda-information-machine. Who else but Armenia herself can attract the Diaspora Armenians? Thus I believe it is the task of the Armenian government to promote our cultural heritage, to promote repatriation (to involve in the communities of the Armenia Diaspora) and when they fail in this important aspect, the blaim is also on independent Armenia herself.

You are right, it takes time, Armenia must be stable first and must be able to feed her own citizens, but I think this can be accomplished sooner with the help of the Diaspora Armenians (and thus by attracting them).

I totally disagree that a nation's government is a reflection of the nation. A lot of government's in the world came in power through force and corruption, not by the will of the people. Armenia deserves the best politician. There are a lot of ''obvious'' things our government neglects or does wrong, I wonder if you read the articles of Dr. Armen Ayvazyan?

Can you explain to me for example, why the government still does not have a ''plan'' as regards showing the map of Armenia/Artsakh? Why does the Armenian government fail to react to the ''Khojaly suicide-massacres'' by brining the slaughter forward in Baku and Sumgait?


As I see it, the problem in Armenian politics today is - inexperience, incompetence and Bolshevik mindsets. This will changes with time. The changes, however, have to be homegrown, in other words not imported from the West. And such changes have to be gradual. The political environment in Armenia needs evolution not revolution.


Totally agree, a lot of current politicians are inexperienced. I heard Seyran Ohanyan lives in a small appartment in downtown Yerevan, I do not think ''true nationalist'' can save up tens of millions of dollars like our president Serge Sarkisyan and Robert Kocharian (tsakhadzor resort, companies, restaurants, bank), living in a villa whereas other brothers and sisters live in small boxes where they have been living in for 20 years after the Gyumri earthquake. No, a true nationalist would give all his money building new homes for our poor brothers and sisters throughout Armenia.

[skhara]

Re: Hezbollah

Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., are all fine and dandy as resistance against Israeli aggression, but beyond that, I see no reason to praise them.

I praise them only as that personally. Actually, I don't praise Hamas really -- I do like Hezbollah however -- could care less about their views on Allah and their social outlook. Besides, you can't really claim there is no nationalist aspect to these groups -- Hezbollah are Lebanese and are Lebanese focused -- they represent and protect the interests of Lebanese Shia's. Likewise Hamas and Palestinians.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Hezbollah

So because there is evidence which goes against the grain of what you're stating it must be because it is not "scholarly" enough or "serious"? This is silly, you're right. And who cares about the last word? That's not why we discuss these things.

The original point being was that there is this unchecked praise of these Islamic groups that goes on in here which is just silly in my opinion considering these people and their religion are contrary to the values we hold in esteem and we of all people should know that having lived under them.

Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., are all fine and dandy as resistance against Israeli aggression, but beyond that, I see no reason to praise them. They are fundamentally different and juxtaposed in a way that is antithetical to the interests of nationalists or those who seek hold high the virtues of a country and nation, an earthly aim, as opposed to Allah, a heavenly aim.

[Armenian]

Re: Hezbollah

The focus of this was not how Christianity was spread. Of course Christianity was spread by violence as well in many parts. But can you truly claim that Christianity was spread more violently than Islam? That is the point. Differences are in degrees, not kinds...

That's the frigging point, Anon. The differences between Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, is only degree of death and destruction they have caused. Beyond that, there is no difference between the religions. And yes, historically speaking, Christianity has more blood on its hands than Islam. It's just that you living in a Christian society, or formerly Christian society, are blinded to this fact. And this statement is coming from a Christian.

My only point was that the crusades were launched not for any imperialistic goal of spreading religion, or booty.

The Crusades were launched exactly for that - "for imperialistic goal, spreading of religion and booty."

However, as usual, the peasants and young nobles were psyched up by lofty theological slogans. It's no different today, just substitute the term Christianity with the terms Democracy and Freedom...

So, in a few generations from now, another Anonymouse in a virtual debate with another Armenian, will state that the American Empire went to war against the primitive Muslims of the Middle East in defense of Democracy and Freedom and when the other Armenian disagrees, the other Anon he will post several articles from the web (if there is such a thing as a web then) that feature Muslim fanatics attacking peaceful westerns to back his claims.

I'm amazed at the degree of your stubbornness, Anon.

Maybe you should review your history of the crusades because you ignored how in Jerusalem prior to the crusades Christians were second class and persecuted. They were crucified, executed, and of course there was the jizya. Even WikiAnswers seems to have this:... These were well before the first crusade, so how can you claim "no Christian in the so-called Holy land was being persecuted by the region's native Muslims." That is untrue.

Anon, please. If you want to continue this debate with me do serious research first. I am talking about reading scholarly books written by seasoned historians and not websites with obvious agendas. You are giving me bits of selective information without historical background or context. So, in a sense, what you are doing here is silly. If you want references PM me I'll be glad to give them to you. This debate has digressed to who can have the last word. I have seen you argue just for the sake of arguing. I'm not going there with you.

So, I'm done. Have the last word.

[Armanen]

Re: Hezbollah

Not the greatest video but I think it gets the point across about Armenians needing to head back to the Homeland sooner or later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iukfnFfs-5o&feature=channel_page