Hezbollah

[Armenian]

Re: Hezbollah

As much as I disagreed with Anon's statements regarding this topic, I disagree with yours as well. On this matter, you two represent the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Armenians in Iran enjoy more freedom than their muslim citizens. Most of them respect christians, and we are treated fairly well. But one can not close an eye on all the negative things the revolution brought, women are supressed, beaten and killed almost on daily basis. My mother told me once that she was carrying my brother in her arms, the special islam-police with AK-47's almost took her to the police station to beat her up, because you could see a little bit of hair (this is what happened to a lot of women, including Armenians). They also killed an Armenian priest. Life for christians in Iran is not so bad as people think in Europe, but it isn't good aswell. We had our own neighbourhoods and schools and did not ''interact'' with them, only for business purposses.

The Middle East's approach towards societal issues are a direct result of the region's popular culture, its man made traditions. The problem is not religion - the problem is male testosterone. Non-Islamic Indians, Chinese, Native American's, Africans, etc., also treat their women horrendously. Moreover, what the West has done to the honor and integrity of women is equally horrendous. One has turned women into sex slaves the other has turned them into work slaves. What's better? Moreover, modern Islamic fundamentalism, especially the one we see in Palestine, Iran and Pakistan, is directly rooted in 20th century geopolitics.

Now that all the xxxish organizations brought the Armenians to America, everything has changed and gone the wrong way. Our power and influence has dramatically declined, as was the initial plan of the j-e-w-s. They foresaw that in the future the Armenians from Iran would have a connection with an independent Armenia and would repatriate and invest billions of dollers in Armenia. The population could have grown between 500.000 and 1.000.000 Armenians, but now there are at best 100.000 Armenians living in Iran.

This is a gross exaggeration, if not a total fallacy. Jews did not bring Armenians to America in order to weaken Armenian power in Iran and forestall any future movement to Armenia. That is pure and adulterated paranoia. When we speak in such outlandish terms about our foes, be they Turks or Jews, it undermines our argument and intellectual integrity.

[B]Armenians flourished best in islamic countries, we had powerfull and tight communities (Syria, Lebanon, Iran) where we maintained our Armenian heritage and culture because we were different from the muslims. We were christians, they where muslims, and this actually saved us.

No. Armenians did not "flourish" in Islamic societies. First of all, Syria and Lebanon are not very Islamic per se due to their contacts with Europe, France and Britain in particular. Nonetheless, these two nations have to be looked upon by Armenians as temporary safe havens. We don't even have a hundred year history in the aforementioned nations and already the Armenian population there is more Arab than Armenian. After several generations there will no longer be an Armenian community of Lebanon and Syria.

Historically, second class Armenians were allowed to quietly live and trade in the Persian and Ottoman empires. Although Armenians were not directly oppressed by Ottoman and Persian authorities and many were allowed to succeed in various careers, the vast majority of Armenians nonetheless could not dream of being anything but second class citizens, or gavurs. Life for the Armenian population under Islamic rule was so stagnant and insular that they began to eventually resemble their Muslim neighbors in culture and in demeanor. By the turn of the 20th century the only thing that could really distinguish an Armenian from his/her Kurdish, Turkish or Persian neighbors was religion.

The culture of Europa, America and Russia ''xxxxed'' up our identity, western-pop-sex-music-hiphop-culture and their ''same'' religion (Armenians often say, you can marry everything except a muslim) was the cause of assimilation, and the Armenian culture and heritage is forgotten on a massive speed. God bless the islamic countries, for where we flourished, lived and maintained our culture.

The culture of the western world is the very heartbeat of the world. Without Europe the world will once again decline into the dark ages.

I rather have my personal freedoms (as well as casual sex, getting drunk and western pop music) than live a desolate life in a little mud hut making donkey saddles all day...

Western culture, Russian in particular, brought us Armenians out of the primitive, Islamic, Anatolian/Middle Eastern lifestyle and into the modern world. Without Russia/western culture Armenia today would not have its institutions of higher learning, its great musical composers, its great war heroes, its great poets, its great artists - its republic...

Times have changed...

Indeed; and Islamic societies are still living in the year 1292 - the year the last western Crusaders were expelled from the Holy Land.

[Armenian]

Re: Hezbollah

However, I draw a line with you folks in terms of honoring Hezbollah or any of these Muslim brotherhood type deals. Let's not forget that just as Judaism and the State of Israel is intolerant toward the other, so is Islam. And Islam is not a religion of peace but very much so a religion of hierarchy, subjugation and order. And lest we forget what Islam is about we need only look at our own Armenian history to see that we were a subject peoples under Islam and were discriminated upon and treated as a second class people...

I don't want to sound like an apologist for Islam. I see 'modern' Islam as a primitive and backward religion. To me, Mohammad was not a prophet. However, until you live in the Islamic societies of the Levant and Mesopotamia you don't have the right to make the inaccurate claims you just made. If you want to know what Islamic society is truly like speak to a well educated/well exposed Armenian from Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Iraq or Iran. During the civil war in Lebanon the only problems Armenians had was with Lebanese Christians. Talk to Lucin here about what's it like for Armenians to live under Iran's Islamic society.

It's funny that westerners bitch about Islam being intolerant throughout history when the exact opposite has been true. Although non-Muslims lived as second class citizens in Islamic societies, non-Christians in Christian societies of the West, especially Muslims, were exterminated out of existence. Although non-Muslims in Islamic societies were second class citizens, many were allowed to reach high levels. All Muslims living under Christian powers in Europe were either killed, converted or expelled. The only reason why 'Jews' survived in the West was because of their tight control over Europe's money and trade. All classical Islamic powers, including the Ottomans, have been pluralistic and much more 'liberal' than their western Christian counterparts throughout history.

After losing their independence during the middle ages Armenians fared quite well under Islamic powers, including Turkish. Mohammad himself is said to have given Armenians rights in Jerusalem. After the defeat of the Crusaders in the Middle East in the late 13th century, non of the region's Christians were molested in any way by the victorious and vengeful Muslims. Ottoman Sultans allowed Armenians to establish Patriarchates in Constantinople and Jerusalem. Classical Islam has always been magnanimous in victory, and their medieval societies have been much more sophisticated than their Christian counterparts in the West. Moreover, the Armenian Genocide was a result of pan-Turkic and Zionist manipulations.

The current sad state of Islamic societies have to do with the destruction brought upon by Mongols, Turks and Crusaders. Islamic society never fully recovered from the destruction brought upon by the aforementioned. Moreover, the situation was made worst when the Allies hastily redrew the national boundaries of the Middle East at the end of the First World War for the purpose of exploitation and manipulation. The sick, violent and perverted form of Islam we are seeing today is a modern phenomenon brought upon by a century of western policies in the Middle East as well as the CIA's funding of fanatics in Pakistan during the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan. And the oppressive Islamic regimes of the Arabian peninsula, who are the West's closest partners in the region, are that way simply because the West set it up that way at the turn of the 20th century because an oppressive/dictatorial regime was the best bet to secure a constant flow of oil from Arabia to the West.

The 'only' legitimate and honorable organization (political and social) in Lebanon is the Hezbollah and the Hezbollah enjoys very warm relations with the Armenian community of Lebanon. However, it's no secret that these people, those against the Zionist state and the West, are being severely pushed to the their limits. They are being turned into wild animals. Just look at what has happened to the historically peaceful and even docile Arab population of Palestine. It's been a century of constant attacks - military, economic and cultural - against them. So, it would not surprise me if one day these people, turned into wild animals, take their revenge on 'all' Christians in the region. And that would be exactly what the West is actually looking for.

Sadly, the persistent and overwhelming anti-Islam propaganda you are constantly exposed to has effected you subconsciously.

[Armenian]

Re: Hezbollah

As much as I disagreed with Anon's statements regarding this topic, I disagree with yours as well. On this matter, you two represent the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Armenians in Iran enjoy more freedom than their muslim citizens. Most of them respect christians, and we are treated fairly well. But one can not close an eye on all the negative things the revolution brought, women are supressed, beaten and killed almost on daily basis. My mother told me once that she was carrying my brother in her arms, the special islam-police with AK-47's almost took her to the police station to beat her up, because you could see a little bit of hair (this is what happened to a lot of women, including Armenians). They also killed an Armenian priest. Life for christians in Iran is not so bad as people think in Europe, but it isn't good aswell. We had our own neighbourhoods and schools and did not ''interact'' with them, only for business purposses.

The Middle East's approach towards societal issues are a direct result of the region's popular culture, its man made traditions. The problem is not religion - the problem is male testosterone. Non-Islamic Indians, Chinese, Native American's, Africans, etc., also treat their women horrendously. Moreover, what the West has done to the honor and integrity of women is equally horrendous. One has turned women into sex slaves the other has turned them into work slaves. What's better? Moreover, modern Islamic fundamentalism, especially the one we see in Palestine, Iran and Pakistan, is directly rooted in 20th century geopolitics.

Now that all the xxxish organizations brought the Armenians to America, everything has changed and gone the wrong way. Our power and influence has dramatically declined, as was the initial plan of the j-e-w-s. They foresaw that in the future the Armenians from Iran would have a connection with an independent Armenia and would repatriate and invest billions of dollers in Armenia. The population could have grown between 500.000 and 1.000.000 Armenians, but now there are at best 100.000 Armenians living in Iran.

This is a gross exaggeration, if not a total fallacy. Jews did not bring Armenians to America in order to weaken Armenian power in Iran and forestall any future movement to Armenia. That is pure and adulterated paranoia. When we speak in such outlandish terms about our foes, be they Turks or Jews, it undermines our argument and intellectual integrity.

[B]Armenians flourished best in islamic countries, we had powerfull and tight communities (Syria, Lebanon, Iran) where we maintained our Armenian heritage and culture because we were different from the muslims. We were christians, they where muslims, and this actually saved us.

No. Armenians did not "flourish" in Islamic societies. First of all, Syria and Lebanon are not very Islamic per se due to their contacts with Europe, France and Britain in particular. Nonetheless, these two nations have to be looked upon by Armenians as temporary safe havens. We don't even have a hundred year history in the aforementioned nations and already the Armenian population there is more Arab than Armenian. After several generations there will no longer be an Armenian community of Lebanon and Syria.

Historically, second class Armenians were allowed to quietly live and trade in the Persian and Ottoman empires. Although Armenians were not directly oppressed by Ottoman and Persian authorities and many were allowed to succeed in various careers, the vast majority of Armenians nonetheless could not dream of being anything but second class citizens, or gavurs. Life for the Armenian population under Islamic rule was so stagnant and insular that they began to eventually resemble their Muslim neighbors in culture and in demeanor. By the turn of the 20th century the only thing that could really distinguish an Armenian from his/her Kurdish, Turkish or Persian neighbors was religion.

The culture of Europa, America and Russia ''xxxxed'' up our identity, western-pop-sex-music-hiphop-culture and their ''same'' religion (Armenians often say, you can marry everything except a muslim) was the cause of assimilation, and the Armenian culture and heritage is forgotten on a massive speed. God bless the islamic countries, for where we flourished, lived and maintained our culture.

The culture of the western world is the very heartbeat of the world. Without Europe the world will once again decline into the dark ages. I rather have my personal freedom (as well as casual sex and western pop music) than live a desolate life in a little mud hut making donkey saddles all day. Western culture, Russian in particular, brought us Armenians out of the primitive, Islamic, Anatolian/Middle Eastern lifestyle and into the modern world. Without Russia/western culture Armenia today would not have its institutions of higher learning, its great musical composers, its great war heroes, its great poets, its great artists - its republic...

Times have changed...

Indeed. And Islamic societies are still living in the year 1292 - the year the last western Crusaders were expelled from the Holy Land.

[hipeter924]

Re: Hezbollah

I will be the first to state Israeli atrocities and brutality and the overall nature of the State of Israel. I'll also go so far as to state that Palestinians have a right to self-determination and self-defense against naked Israeli aggression.

However, I draw a line with you folks in terms of honoring Hezbollah or any of these Muslim brotherhood type deals. Let's not forget that just as Judaism and the State of Israel is intolerant toward the other, so is Islam. And Islam is not a religion of peace but very much so a religion of hierarchy, subjugation and order. And lest we forget what Islam is about we need only look at our own Armenian history to see that we were a subject peoples under Islam and were discriminated upon and treated as a second class people.

Most if not all of these Islamic based groups or Islamic fundamentalist organizations seek an Islamic society or a caliphate or some type of deal where they will impose Islam on everyone else. Their mentality and backwardness of thought is against the idea of placing the highest emphasis on culture of a people but on the culture of the religion, because Islam is an all encompassing ideology of one-worldism that reduces people under one banner of sameness.

Let's fall into the trap where we can't see the forest for the trees.

Any religion cannot be held as evil simply because humans make it that way, otherwise Christianity would be equally evil for persecution of Cathars, xxxs, women and other groups in society. So you are wrong there. If you ever read say the Koran it tells people to tolerate and respect other religions and not force Islam upon people.

The Ottoman Turks did not follow the Koran word for word, in fact they just used the Koran as something to justify their acts even though the Koran text did not justify it.

The thing always with religion is that it relies on interpretation, since the bible and other christian texts were used to discriminate against women and sadly today the Koran is used in a similar way. But that does not mean the religion is evil, its just the interpretation that is evil.

So because of this I reject your view of Islam, you can't put Islam, Christianity or any religion on scales and say this is evil because it never works that way. It is humans, not the religion at fault, and even then you can't call the followers of one religion all evil, because it never works that way.

Sorry mate, but I can't really see why you view it that way.

[UrMistake]

Re: Hezbollah

Tigranakert do not talk that u dont know of,armenians in europe and in MODERN countrys is better than eny muslim country u just said some facts like the priest and ur mom,then u say God bless them?for what for being stupid?armenians in muslim countrys is the modern kind of citizens that they dont have,dont blame all the wrong to the xxxs all the countrys had there own benefits from not leting armenians to flourish especialy in iran and other muslim countris.

[Tigranakert]

Armenians in Iran enjoy more freedom than their muslim citizens. Most of them respect christians, and we are treated fairly well. But one can not close an eye on all the negative things the revolution brought, women are supressed, beaten and killed almost on daily basis.

My mother told me once that she was carrying my brother in her arms, the special islam-police with AK-47's almost took her to the police station to beat her up, because you could see a little bit of hair (this is what happened to a lot of women, including Armenians). They also killed an Armenian priest. Life for christians in Iran is not so bad as people think in Europe, but it isn't good aswell. We had our own neighbourhoods and schools and did not ''interact'' with them, only for business purposses.

Now that all the xxxish organizations brought the Armenians to America, everything has changed and gone the wrong way. Our power and influence has dramatically declined, as was the initial plan of the j-e-w-s.

They foresaw that in the future the Armenians from Iran would have a connection with an independent Armenia and would repatriate and invest billions of dollers in Armenia. The population could have grown between 500.000 and 1.000.000 Armenians, but now there are at best 100.000 Armenians living in Iran.

Armenians flourished best in islamic countries, we had powerfull and tight communities (Syria, Lebanon, Iran) where we maintained our Armenian heritage and culture because we were different from the muslims. We were christians, they where muslims, and this actually saved us.

The culture of Europa, America and Russia ''xxxxed'' up our identity, western-pop-sex-music-hiphop-culture and their ''same'' religion (Armenians often say, you can marry everything except a muslim) was the cause of assimilation, and the Armenian culture and heritage is forgotten on a massive speed. God bless the islamic countries, for where we flourished, lived and maintained our culture.

Times have changed...

[Anonymouse]

Re: Hezbollah

I will be the first to state Israeli atrocities and brutality and the overall nature of the State of Israel. I'll also go so far as to state that Palestinians have a right to self-determination and self-defense against naked Israeli aggression.

However, I draw a line with you folks in terms of honoring Hezbollah or any of these Muslim brotherhood type deals. Let's not forget that just as Judaism and the State of Israel is intolerant toward the other, so is Islam. And Islam is not a religion of peace but very much so a religion of hierarchy, subjugation and order. And lest we forget what Islam is about we need only look at our own Armenian history to see that we were a subject peoples under Islam and were discriminated upon and treated as a second class people.

Most if not all of these Islamic based groups or Islamic fundamentalist organizations seek an Islamic society or a caliphate or some type of deal where they will impose Islam on everyone else. Their mentality and backwardness of thought is against the idea of placing the highest emphasis on culture of a people but on the culture of the religion, because Islam is an all encompassing ideology of one-worldism that reduces people under one banner of sameness.

Let's fall into the trap where we can't see the forest for the trees.

[hipeter924]

Re: Hezbollah

In a speech on Monday to Israel's parliament, the Knesset, Mr Barak warned that Hezbollah's military wing, the Islamic Resistance, had greatly increased its arsenal since 2006.

It now possessed missiles which could reach far into southern Israel, he said.

"Hezbollah has three times the ability it had before the second Lebanon war and now has 42,000 missiles in its possession, as opposed to the 14,000 it had before the war," he said.

"It has missiles that can reach the towns of Ashkelon, Beersheba and Dimona."

Mr Barak also said that the movement's inclusion in Lebanon's national unity government earlier this year meant that Israel might take wider action against the country's civilian infrastructure in future.

Israeli racism shows through yet again, and they say they want peace and all the time Israel threatens war on innocent people who have nothing to do with it. Where I have I seen this before? Oh wait. The last war that Israel lost.

[Federate]

Re: Hezbollah

Hezbollah plot to attack Israeli embassy in Azerbaijan foiled

The London Times revealed Friday that a Hezbollah plot to attack the Israeli embassy in Azerbaijan was foiled last year, after Azeri Intelligence discovered the plot.

Azeri intelligence authorities reportedly first caught wind of the plot weeks after Imad Mughniyah, Deputy Secretary General of the Lebanon-based guerilla group was killed by a car bomb in Damascus last February.

As the date of Mughniyah's assassination draws near there is growing concern that Hezbollah is planning further attacks on Israeli or xxxish targets abroad to retaliate his killing, the Times indicates. Hezbollah's 1800 Unit is said to be working on possible attacks inside Israel.

Hezbollah leader, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, said: "The Zionists will discover that the war they had in July was a walk in the park if we compare it to what we've prepared for every new aggression," says the Times.

The report also stated that the Egyptian intelligence broke up a Sinai-based Hezbollah cell headed by Sami Shehab, a Lebanese citizen. The cell, which also included Palestinians members had allegedly planned to attack Israeli targets.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1056226.html

[Federate]

Re: Hezbollah

Hezbollah missile stock 'tripled'

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak has said the Lebanese Hezbollah movement now has three times as many missiles as before the 2006 Lebanon war.

Mr Barak told MPs some of its 42,000 missiles could reach the southern towns of Ashkelon, Beersheba and Dimona, more than 200km (125 miles) from the border.

Hezbollah fired thousands of rockets into northern Israel during the 2006 conflict, killing some 40 civilians.

More than 1,125 Lebanese, most of them civilians, died in Israeli attacks.

The 34-day war started with a border incursion by Hezbollah on 12 July 2006. Eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two others kidnapped, prompting a massive Israeli response.

Gaza truce praised

In a speech on Monday to Israel's parliament, the Knesset, Mr Barak warned that Hezbollah's military wing, the Islamic Resistance, had greatly increased its arsenal since 2006.

It now possessed missiles which could reach far into southern Israel, he said.

"Hezbollah has three times the ability it had before the second Lebanon war and now has 42,000 missiles in its possession, as opposed to the 14,000 it had before the war," he said.

"It has missiles that can reach the towns of Ashkelon, Beersheba and Dimona."

Mr Barak also said that the movement's inclusion in Lebanon's national unity government earlier this year meant that Israel might take wider action against the country's civilian infrastructure in future.

"The integration of Hezbollah into the Lebanese state exposes Lebanon and its infrastructure to in-depth attacks in the event of a new conflict," he said.

Earlier, when addressing the Knesset's foreign affairs and defence committee, Mr Barak also renewed his support for an extension of the ceasefire with Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip, which began on 19 June.

"I'm not sorry for any day or month of calm," he said.

"In each of the two months leading up to the truce there were 500 incidences of Qassam rocket fire and mortar shell fire, a figure which dropped to roughly 10 a month when the truce kicked in," he added.

Mr Barak also rejected calls for a major ground offensive in Gaza to overthrow the Islamist movement, Hamas, which seized control of the territory last year.

"To all the warmongers I say: You have nothing to teach me about war or peace or my duties," the former chief of staff of the Israel Defence Forces said.

"I am defence minister, not war minister, and my job is to maintain as far as possible the maximum of security for Israeli citizens. In any case, if a pre-emptive operation proves necessary, the army will act."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7746615.stm