Religion and Atheism

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I kindly suggest you to read and understand the text below. It highlights very clearly why Christians ought to fight against homosexuality.
[/I]

I read it. I didn't understand it. All I got from that text is blah blah blah homosexuality is sin blah blah homosexulaity bad blah blah God forbids it blah the end.

There is no "reason" given other than God's will. That's not good enough. A true follower of Christ will have compassion and love for all of God's creations, including the gays.

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I read it. I didn't understand it. All I got from that text is blah blah blah homosexuality is sin blah blah homosexulaity bad blah blah God forbids it blah the end.

There is no "reason" given other than God's will. That's not good enough. A true follower of Christ will have compassion and love for all of God's creations, including the gays.

The most important message of my earlier post to you was this: Marriage is between a man and a woman. And that’s exactly what the opponents of gay marriage (including myself) oppose. I don’t care if all the holy books of the world (i.e. Torah, New Testament, Koran etc.) consider gays sinners and abomination because that’s not what my opposition is about.

I’m against gay marriage because I believe that the institute of marriage should be exclusively between a man and a woman. It was always this way and it should always remain this way for the sake of our traditions, culture and our future as a healthy nation.

Let the gays legally be together, but let’s not call it a marriage, let’s not give their union the same status as the heterosexual ones because theirs is just a legalized partnership, ours is not just a partnership, it’s union to create the future of mankind. What future for the society does a legalized gay partnership create? None, zilch, zero! What future for the society does a marriage create? Children – the very future itself! Do you understand that or not?

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Don't let this jewish/freemason thing grow into an obsession.

Very good suggestion, thank you.

P.S. it’s good to see you, axel. stay around and continue your contributions, i enjoy reading your posts.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I read it. I didn't understand it. All I got from that text is blah blah blah homosexuality is sin blah blah homosexulaity bad blah blah God forbids it blah the end.

There is no "reason" given other than God's will. That's not good enough. A true follower of Christ will have compassion and love for all of God's creations, including the gays.

Gay marriage is a political issue, focusing on gay couples having the same rights as heterosexual couples. The politics is quite simple. Men or women who are room mates and who don't ever plan to get married could legally opt to form a union just to reap the benefits. It sounds absurd but keep in mind that the same suspicions were applied to couples that married for green cards. That is perspective of the government. The perspective of the people is that marriage between a man and a woman is sacred and gay marriage makes a mockery of this sacrament.

There may be some people who have deep seeded hatred towards gays but I'm sure they are in the minority or have had some sort of altercation which formed their viewpoints. When the "Christian" right in the media speaks on issues, keep in mind that they don't speak for all Christians. However, it is still in dispute whether television and pop culture is having an affect on young minds who don't have the best parental figures. The representation of gays in the media is not proportionate or a blatant misrepresentation of reality.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Note: This applies to the US only (not the world; looking at you Kanada )

The way I see it, religion is irrelevant because there's (or there should be GRR) separation between church and state. What it boils down to is this... There's an equal protections clause in the constitution and at present the law is discriminatory. It's only a matter of a little time before this inequality is fixed. They cannot say that oh you can have "domestic partnership" and that's good enough. The Supreme Court has seen this kind of "separate but equal" BS before and it didn't fly.

That said, I agree with Sip... the arguments are unconvincing because they're really not arguments. They're prescriptions, rules, etc without any explanation or justification.
What makes sense is that the bible takes this stance because a (the?) major goal of any religion is to GROW. What better way to do that than with lots of christian babies? In this light, the views on contraception, withdrawal, homosexuality, abortion, etc., all make a little more sense.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

That said, I agree with Sip... the arguments are unconvincing because they're really not arguments. They're prescriptions, rules, etc without any explanation or justification.
What makes sense is that the bible takes this stance because a (the?) major goal of any religion is to GROW. What better way to do that than with lots of christian babies? In this light, the views on contraception, withdrawal, homosexuality, abortion, etc., all make a little more sense.

The only reason "America" works is because of immigration. Close off the country to immigrants and it will die within 1-2 generations using your model. It's not about growth but sustaining sustaining life. If you don't have a young generation to take care of the old, you're pretty much dead in the water.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The only reason "America" works is because of immigration. Close off the country to immigrants and it will die within 1-2 generations using your model. It's not about growth but sustaining sustaining life. If you don't have a young generation to take care of the old, you're pretty much dead in the water.

I didn't say America... Not about growth anyway. I was saying it makes sense for religions to take these stances.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The only reason "America" works is because of immigration. Close off the country to immigrants and it will die within 1-2 generations using your model. It's not about growth but sustaining sustaining life. If you don't have a young generation to take care of the old, you're pretty much dead in the water.

What? Are you suggesting America will die due to gays? Before you answer that, let me ask if there are only gays in the US or there are gays everywhere? (Note that this is mostly a rhetorical question unless you are with Ahmadinejad and want to claim that for example there are no gays in Iran )

I may have misunderstood what you are saying ... I am hoping you are saying that we need larger and larger groups of young people to keep the old generations going since they live so much longer

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

(Note that this is mostly a rhetorical question unless you are with Ahmadinejad and want to claim that for example there are no gays in Iran )

I may have misunderstood what you are saying ... I am hoping you are saying that we need larger and larger groups of young people to keep the old generations going since they live so much longer

I think this is what he meant. In classic Kanada style, his point didn't have much to do with gays or religion.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The most important message of my earlier post to you was this: Marriage is between a man and a woman. And that’s exactly what the opponents of gay marriage (including myself) oppose. I don’t care if all the holy books of the world (i.e. Torah, New Testament, Koran etc.) consider gays sinners and abomination because that’s not what my opposition is about.

Gay marriage is definitely a huge topic on its own. I am one of those that doesn't think marriage should be subsidized (straight or gay). If people want to get together, commit to each other, and live like that, fine. They are free to do so. It is a social concept and should not be endorsed, recommended, discouraged, encouraged, or in any way interfered with by government. In other words, I am anti-marriage as an institution (Gay or straight, doesn't matter to me).

The problem with modern religion is trying to classify homosexuality as "sin" when there are soooo many gays that are biologically gay (as in God made them that way). I know a lot of the uber-religious will fight tooth and nail trying to argue against this but you put any group of 10 people together, my guess is 1 of them is going to be gay. You can shame them into silence, you can burn them at the stake, you can stone and hang them (like they do in Iran), but in the end, you can't really fight biology (or God's will?).