Religion and Atheism

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I don’t think it’s that simple.

Christian Zionism (CZ) claims to be from Restorationism , which has advocated for return of the j3ws to the Holy Land and their conversion to Christianity in order to initiate the Second Coming of Christ. Sometime in the not so distant past Restorationism was basically hijacked and so seriously corrupted that the most fundamental prerequisite – conversion of j3ws to Christianity – was completely dropped and forgotten! Instead it has evolved into this ridiculous hybrid known as Christian Zionism - an extremely influential worldwide movement championed especially by the US and UK’s elites and their multi-million strong ordinary followers. As I said before, CZ apparently has 50 million fully active and paying members in the US alone!

What else CZs are standing for? Well, for things that are even more ridiculous. For example, they advocate for the rebuilding of the Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem, which is impossible without the destruction of the third holiest site of Islam , the Al Aqsa mosque, because it sits right in the middle of where the Temple is suppose to be. The importance of the Temple’s reconstruction for them is enormous, because they believe that at its completion the j3wish messiah (not Jesus) will finally arrive!

It seems to me that the root of all evil is not only the money, it is also the religious fundamentalism.

Here is my thought. Keep in mind I just finished watching the hockey game, drank 6 beers and flirted with every girl that came up to the bar to order a drink.

If J3ws didn't change their ways when Christ sacrificed his flesh and blood and left behind millions of people to follow his teachings, why would he need to prove himself again? His teachings are well known and his legacy still remains today. There would be no point of God's son coming back in the form of flesh and blood just to say "I told you so".

Also, how holy is a land that advocates death and hatred for its neighbours? Are they really expecting a Messiah to be born in the middle of that hate filled state?

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Here is my thought. Keep in mind I just finished watching the hockey game, drank 6 beers and flirted with every girl that came up to the bar to order a drink.

If J3ws didn't change their ways when Christ sacrificed his flesh and blood and left behind millions of people to follow his teachings, why would he need to prove himself again? His teachings are well known and his legacy still remains today. There would be no point of God's son coming back in the form of flesh and blood just to say "I told you so".

Also, how holy is a land that advocates death and hatred for its neighbours? Are they really expecting a Messiah to be born in the middle of that hate filled state?

You made some very good points, which is another proof that proper use (rather than abuse) of alcohol can be very good. Cheers!

I just don’t like to have a bunch of fanatics (Zionists and their puppets on one hand and Muslim fundamentalists on the other) turning the world into a hellhole and dragging all of us into it. And even more I dislike the fact that Christ’s name is tarnished and his teachings are twisted by actions from both of this groups.

Yet the whole bloody world could have been (and should have been) a much nicer and healthier place had all the people of the world embraced teachings of Jesus Christ.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

When you say "We burned witches in the past" were Armenians involved in any of these things? Why should everyone be made guilty for things that only certain individual people or groups of people were responsible for? Just because someone identifies themselves as being Christian doesn't make them a Nazi. I know my ancestors had no involvement in Nazi Germany.

Very good my friend So you would agree that just because a whole bunch of people believe in some Church, the rest of us shouldn't be made guilty That as the whole point. The actions or beliefs of a certain group of people shouldn't be reason or justification for everyone in the universe.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Religion and Atheism

You made some very good points, which is another proof that proper use (rather than abuse) of alcohol can be very good. Cheers!

I just don’t like to have a bunch of fanatics (Zionists and their puppets on one hand and Muslim fundamentalists on the other) turning the world into a hellhole and dragging all of us into it. And even more I dislike the fact that Christ’s name is tarnished and his teachings are twisted by actions from both of this groups.

Yet the whole bloody world could have been (and should have been) a much nicer and healthier place had all the people of the world embraced teachings of Jesus Christ.

I couldn't agree more with the above post. I think part of the problem of why the West seems to be embracing atheism/agnosticism is because of this type of fundamentalism. When you think about it, the type of Protestantism/Christian Zionism that is touted and paraded on TV all the time isn't really fundamentalism, because they are diverging greatly from the beliefs of historical, ancient and mainline Christianity. I would be more apt to call it Christian radicalism ('radical' in this sense meaning departing from traditional beliefs, not taking a certain idea to an extreme). In my opinion, your typical Westerner who is luke-warm or has no philosophical beliefs for or against religion will see this type of Christianity, conclude that that's all there is, and then say, "Well if this is Christianity, I certainly want no part of it". And I wouldn't blame him/her. But this is not Christianity at all, it is in reality some perverted version of Christianity presented to the public for mass-consumption in order to fulfill either personal, political or financial gain.

The whole "Christian Zionism" phenomenon is really perplexing to me as Christians have always understood Zion/Israel/Jerusalem as a spiritual idea rather than a physical place. As Christians we are the "New Israel", but it is not a physical place. This only makes sense as Christ was fundamentally opposed to the idea of a "chosen people" and the worship of states and municipalities.

And furthermore, for Christian Zionists, the Israelis can do no wrong and they will even tolerate the abuse, racism and discrimination against their Christian brothers that goes on daily within Israel and Jerusalem. One would think that you would support your Christian brethren being persecuted over non-Christians but I guess anything and everything is possible in the realm of the fundy set...

As one priest put it, "God put a limit on our intelligence, but he sure as hell didn't put a limit on our stupidity".

[Lucin]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I wasn't saying that! Argh... Apparently there's no way of saying that there does happen to be a correlation without people being offended. There's like a 6 point difference... that means there's HUGE overlap among the groups. Across large numbers there's a statistical difference, but with a smallish difference like that, it doesn't translate well to any individual.

You said 'there are exceptions though'...
Where does this statistic come from and who has conducted it? Maybe there are statistics suggesting the opposite too...

Okay, this translates to "I don't care what you think... I was talking to Karo whom I like better than you"? :-/ I guess I've offended you too if your response to me letting you know that atheists will generally be offended by that kind of comment is basically "stfu, who asked you?" You're typically quite pleasant and nice.
So much for trying to be helpful and eliminate one of the things that leads to conflict...

You can translate it the way you like but that was not how it was meant to be.. I was making no comparison between you and Karo.

I appreciate this because it is a rare stance. If I've come across as having any kind of chip on my shoulder, it's because I feel like I have to constantly defend myself. Whenever it comes up that I don't believe, people do what's been done here and start quoting the bible, remind me I'm going to hell, and otherwise try to persuade me (or maybe justify their belief?). It's like if you asked someone about their religion and they said "I'm Buddhist" it seems like people leave that alone, but if you say you don't subscribe to any religion, then people have something to say about that. I speak up also because I think atheists are misunderstood (e.g. we're not immoral, socialists, satanists, etc.) and I hope to correct some of that. What I am not trying to do is persuade anyone to give up their own religious beliefs. Nor am I trying to offend anyone (although, apparently I'm not doing a great job of this one).

You are free to defend your belief/stance but without looking down on others I have noticed that you (as well as a few others here) constantly point to your intelligence, higher intellect and higher education/degree (explicitly or implicitly) and try to justify your rightfulness (in different issues) by leaning on these factors... while it's not a proper way...
We all know well that there are many many highly educated, influential and important people who happen to be believers...

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Yet the whole bloody world could have been (and should have been) a much nicer and healthier place had all the people of the world embraced teachings of Jesus Christ.

I'll definitely drink to that. Only if people would focus more on the teachings of Jesus about how to live and less on things like wasting efforts to fight tooth and nail against evolution (by banning it from books!) or putting together creationist museums and what not ... or trying to paint gays as some sort of evil perverts ... etc etc.

[gkv]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The whole "Christian Zionism" phenomenon is really perplexing to me as Christians have always understood Zion/Israel/Jerusalem as a spiritual idea rather than a physical place.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%204&version=KJV

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Very good my friend So you would agree that just because a whole bunch of people believe in some Church, the rest of us shouldn't be made guilty That as the whole point. The actions or beliefs of a certain group of people shouldn't be reason or justification for everyone in the universe.

Uhm, guilt is felt by your own conscience... if you feel guilt, blame your own psyche or parents for raising you that way

I'll definitely drink to that. Only if people would focus more on the teachings of Jesus about how to live and less on things like wasting efforts to fight tooth and nail against evolution (by banning it from books!) or putting together creationist museums and what not ... or trying to paint gays as some sort of evil perverts ... etc etc.

The only evil thing about gays is they are happy because they don't have to deal with all the stress and responsibility of having offspring. Who really cares if they marry by law? The state cares because a gay marriage does nothing for the economy and has no bearing on tax collection. They would reap the benefits of insurance and tax breaks without any sort of return to the state.

Yeah, I've run into this... Some people identify jewish like it's an ethnicity and not a religion. So, it's like they're ethnic jew, but not religiously a jew.
It's confusing to say the least. I suppose they do share a culture even if they don't believe.

They don't believe what? They don't believe they are ethnic J3ws? Both J3ws and Arabs are Semitic. Perhaps they know they aren't ethnic J3ws and only pretend to be J3ws so they can reap the benefits of soaking up sympathy while hiding behind a J3wish veil and perpetrating criminal activity. After all, it's like joining a club.... as long as you pay into the club, you reap the rewards.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The whole "Christian Zionism" phenomenon is really perplexing to me as Christians have always understood Zion/Israel/Jerusalem as a spiritual idea rather than a physical place. As Christians we are the "New Israel", but it is not a physical place. This only makes sense as Christ was fundamentally opposed to the idea of a "chosen people" and the worship of states and municipalities.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...04&version=KJV

This is similar to the idea of Zen in Buddhism. True Israelites are the sons and daughters of the "New Israel" and they are spread across the world to embody Christ's spirit and revel in the truth.

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I'll definitely drink to that. Only if people would focus more on the teachings of Jesus about how to live and less on things like wasting efforts to fight tooth and nail against evolution (by banning it from books!) or putting together creationist museums and what not ... or trying to paint gays as some sort of evil perverts ... etc etc.

I kindly suggest you to read and understand the text below. It highlights very clearly why Christians ought to fight against homosexuality.

The Apostle Paul, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, declares that homosexuality "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (I Corinthians 6:9; 10). Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion. The Christian can neither alter God's viewpoint nor depart from it. Homosexuality is wickedness and must be recognized as such else there is no hope for the homosexual who is asking for help to be extricated from his perverted way of life. However, to call a union of two persons of the same sex a "marriage" is a misnomer. In the Bible, marriage is a divinely ordered institution designed to form a permanent union between one man and one woman for one purpose (among others) of procreating or propagating the human race. That was God's order in the first of such unions (Genesis 1:27, 28; 2:24; Matthew 19:5). If, in His original creation of humans, God had created two persons of the same sex, there would not be a human race in existence today. The whole idea of two persons of the same sex marrying is absurd, unsound, ridiculously unreasonable, stupid. A clergyman might bless a homosexual marriage but God won't.