Religion and Atheism

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I too, like Karo, have been an atheist a long time (at least 17 of my 30 years). And there's not a darn thing lacking in my life because of it.

Perhaps we need to put atheists on an island of their own and see how far they get without the "believers"

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Perhaps we need to put atheists on an island of their own and see how far they get without the "believers"

It would have to be a huge island.
Atlas Shrugged style. I would love that.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Ara, Davo jan! We're a little b!tchy aren't we? Not everyone is obsessed with the minutiae of religion. You're being awfully rude in your reply (I assume because you're taking it personally and there's no need for that either). Be a little nicer and reap it twofold in return.
The average atheists tends to know religion (esp Christianity) and the content of the bible better than the average believer. YOU are not average... remember that.

That's because the top atheists are J3ws and the average atheist is a mouthpiece for the top atheists. J3ws tend to know a lot about Christianity

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

That's because the top atheists are J3ws and the average atheist is a mouthpiece for the top atheists. J3ws tend to know a lot about Christianity

The "top atheists"? I didn't realize we were ranked.

Everything comes back to a hrya conspiracy for you...

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The "top atheists"? I didn't realize we were ranked.

Everything comes back to a hrya conspiracy for you...

Simple question. You can be Armenian and Atheist correct? You can't be Christian and Atheist. However you can be J3wish and Atheist. So my question to you is what is a J3w? Is it a person who is a shape shifter?

[Lucin]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I think this kind of discussion takes place when one person starts to tell another that they don't understand. I think this is when people feel compelled to defend that they have not arrived at their viewpoint because they are intellectually lacking and that they're plenty smart enough to weigh things for themselves etc.

From a different point of view, the above seems to apply to the atheists well...

I know there are exceptions though (and I have met lots of people), but there is in fact a statistical correlation (smallish, but significant) between IQ and belief. Just sayin'!

Yea, thank you. I knew atheists are a more 'intellectual', 'intelligent', 'educated' bunch...
So you think the intelligent believers (or non-intelligent atheists) happen to be the exceptions?? If this is how all atheists think, a very self-absorbed attitude I must say...

And just a suggestion... I wouldn't tell people they're confused. How would you feel if I patted you on the shoulder, and said "It's okay, you're a little confused right now... you'll come to your senses eventually"? That's offensive... Ironically enough, that's basically the equivalent of what you're complaining about except instead of saying "you're not intelligent enough to understand" you're saying "you're too confused."

My suggestion... let people figure out themselves whether they are offended or not. But to clarify further... his confusion comes from the fact that he is stuck in a contradiction here (have already explained). Regardless, I like Karo because as a young man he has mature world views.



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For the record, I do not consider atheists as less Armenian or not Armenian, christian or non-christian, all is proven by how you behave/your actions... the problem with some of these atheists is the arrogance and the self-righteous attitude.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

From a different point of view, the above seems to apply to the atheists well...

I meant this generally (I think that's why Kanada was mocking the language) to apply to both groups.

Yea, thank you. I knew atheists are a more 'intellectual', 'intelligent', 'educated' bunch...
So you think the intelligent believers (or non-intelligent atheists) happen to be the exceptions?? If this is how all atheists think, a very self-absorbed attitude I must say...

I wasn't saying that! Argh... Apparently there's no way of saying that there does happen to be a correlation without people being offended. There's like a 6 point difference... that means there's HUGE overlap among the groups. Across large numbers there's a statistical difference, but with a smallish difference like that, it doesn't translate well to any individual.

My suggestion... let people figure out themselves whether they are offended or not. But to clarify further... his confusion comes from the fact that he is stuck in a contradiction here (have already explained). Regardless, I like Karo because as a young man he has mature world views.

Okay, this translates to "I don't care what you think... I was talking to Karo whom I like better than you"? :-/ I guess I've offended you too if your response to me letting you know that atheists will generally be offended by that kind of comment is basically "stfu, who asked you?" You're typically quite pleasant and nice.
So much for trying to be helpful and eliminate one of the things that leads to conflict...

*******
For the record, I do not consider atheists as less Armenian or not Armenian, christian or non-christian, all is proven by how you behave/your actions... the problem with some of these atheists is the arrogance and the self-righteous attitude.

I appreciate this because it is a rare stance. If I've come across as having any kind of chip on my shoulder, it's because I feel like I have to constantly defend myself. Whenever it comes up that I don't believe, people do what's been done here and start quoting the bible, remind me I'm going to hell, and otherwise try to persuade me (or maybe justify their belief?). It's like if you asked someone about their religion and they said "I'm Buddhist" it seems like people leave that alone, but if you say you don't subscribe to any religion, then people have something to say about that. I speak up also because I think atheists are misunderstood (e.g. we're not immoral, socialists, satanists, etc.) and I hope to correct some of that. What I am not trying to do is persuade anyone to give up their own religious beliefs. Nor am I trying to offend anyone (although, apparently I'm not doing a great job of this one).

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Simple question. You can be Armenian and Atheist correct? You can't be Christian and Atheist. However you can be J3wish and Atheist. So my question to you is what is a J3w? Is it a person who is a shape shifter?

Yeah, I've run into this... Some people identify jewish like it's an ethnicity and not a religion. So, it's like they're ethnic jew, but not religiously a jew.
It's confusing to say the least. I suppose they do share a culture even if they don't believe.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Ara, Davo jan! We're a little b!tchy aren't we?

I'm not really b!tchy, I just don't appreciate false information.

Not everyone is obsessed with the minutiae of religion.

When talking about the origins and history of the Bible, and how most Christians (i.e. the Apostolic Churches) relate to it, I do not consider my post "minutiae".

You're being awfully rude in your reply (I assume because you're taking it personally and there's no need for that either). Be a little nicer and reap it twofold in return.

That's subjective, especially considering the debate is about people's deep-seated beliefs. I don't think I was being rude to him, only trying to bring him down to reality that most of the assumptions which he bases his conclusions upon are not correct.

The average atheists tends to know religion (esp Christianity) and the content of the bible better than the average believer. YOU are not average... remember that.

Depends whose Christianity you're talking about. I agree that American atheists tend to be able to pick out random Bible verses and say, "see, look how evil Christianity is!" and then deconstruct American Christianity that way. But I think most American atheists know next-to-nothing about what Christianity has said over its near-2000 year history. Do you know how the Bible is traditionally interpreted (i.e. through the Church Fathers)? It is well known that anyone can take any verse of the Bible and make any sort of claim using it, but this is not how Christians have traditionally understood it including the Armenian Church.

I was just pointing out that most Christians do not agree with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura and that this is basically an American invention. Most Christians do not think like the ones you see on TV, and that's an empirical fact.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I'm not really b!tchy, I just don't appreciate false information.

I know that's ultimately your issue with it, but it's not as if he's been deliberately misrepresenting it. It's possible to correct his understanding of it with a softer tone, no? I think that we should all be able to have discussions in a way that's more respectful of one another, but that takes a concerted effort. That's all I'm saying and so I'm not doing line by line comments to the rest of your post. I'm not singling you out either. I think we've all done it.