Religion and Atheism

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Karo jan if you are as open minded and willing to learn and explore then please have a look here.


I am not asking you to reply back to this and continue what will shortly become a non ending debate = pointless debate.

Actually his blog was one of the aspects that showed me what our religion was and helped me on too the way finding what fitted me.

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I think rules created 2000 years ago should not be followed today. There is wisdom in some but others are so filled with BS that it isn't even funny. Marrying ones daughter, genocide of whole cities, killing non believers etc. Most Christians today are selective reading the bible and taking out things what works for them. I've got respect for that but I chose to be honest with myself if i can't accept the whole thing why select some parts of it.



Those parts come through evolution, because a society can not survive if they start killing each other. You will never see piranhas killing each other.

I still think those people are making links where they don't exist. Especially towards the Hellenic world. What is Christianity in its core? Accepting Jesus as savior and son of God.

Karo jan if you are as open minded and willing to learn and explore then please have a look here.


I am not asking you to reply back to this and continue what will shortly become a non ending debate = pointless debate.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

You do realize that it was the noble houses that protected Armenians from invasions up until the Bolsheviks who abolished the Armenian noble class altogether just prior to the Soviet Unification. Everyone seems to forget that minor role which the Ottoman Turks had nothing to do with.

You're funny. If this was a discussion about a modern leader, you'd be the one insisting he's corrupt, that there are other things at play behind the scenes, and never trust the story fed to the masses. Yet now, you resist that there might be more to the popular story here.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

You do realize that it was the noble houses that protected Armenians from invasions up until the Bolsheviks who abolished the Armenian noble class altogether just prior to the Soviet Unification. Everyone seems to forget that minor role which the Ottoman Turks had nothing to do with.

Actually it was Timur Lame that destroyed the Armenian nobility and what was left after that was a mere shadow of the past. If you look at Mkhitar Sparapet and David Bek you can see how nobility was ready to sell out the ordinary people to save their own skin. If they didn't protect there was no one left to tend to their lands, no one left to pay taxes etc. They didn't do it because they loved the people so much but because they needed the people.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

He didn't fight for self determination but for his rights he got as a Nakharar. The last thing he was thinking about was the ordinary people, he was to busy thinking about his own power and that of his allies.

You do realize that it was the noble houses that protected Armenians from invasions up until the Bolsheviks who abolished the Armenian noble class altogether just prior to the Soviet Unification. Everyone seems to forget that minor role which the Ottoman Turks had nothing to do with.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The western self-centered and individualistic approach to Christianity, which has also started to take roots in Armenia, doesn't correspond to the Christianity that is known to Armenians and their historical experience.

Why would he have believed he was entitled to any rights and more importantly, the right to self determination?

He didn't fight for self determination but for his rights he got as a Nakharar. The last thing he was thinking about was the ordinary people, he was to busy thinking about his own power and that of his allies.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

How do you explain that there were as many Armenian houses that were fighting against Vartan as with him? And the fact that the rebellion brought his family to the most powerful position in the country?
That his struggle was not for more power and was something more noble than what it really was. He was fighting as any other noble lord would do if his rights were were taken away.

The western self-centered and individualistic approach to Christianity, which has also started to take roots in Armenia, doesn't correspond to the Christianity that is known to Armenians and their historical experience.

Why would he have believed he was entitled to any rights and more importantly, the right to self determination?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Unfortunately, what/how you see it does not reflect what he was for in reality... you are twisting it to justify..



What 'myths'? The one fabricated by Baliozian and Co.?

How do you explain that there were as many Armenian houses that were fighting against Vartan as with him? And the fact that the rebellion brought his family to the most powerful position in the country?
That his struggle was not for more power and was something more noble than what it really was. He was fighting as any other noble lord would do if his rights were were taken away.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

According to Gibbons Christianity was one of the main reasons for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire (West). Also, what do you mean there were no emperors besides Charlemagne and the Byzantine emperor? The Chinese, and Persians had emperors at the same time.

We are talking in Christian Europe.

The fall of the Western part had very little to do with the conversion because there was a part of the population that did not convert. The West fell because the east wasn't there to support the West. the Eastern part has always been the richer part of the empire. This can even be seen during the triumvirate of Augustus, Marc Antony and Lepidus. Augustus got the West and Antony the east and Lepidus got North Africa. Because the West was so poor and Augustus felt cheated they decide to divide all of the income.

So losing that income meant the end of the West, that was also the reason that the East survived 1000 years longer than the West.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

What is Christianity in its core? Accepting Jesus as savior and son of God.

That would be the extremely watered down and fat free version.