Religion and Atheism

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The larger point is that when a scientific instrument fails, or the police have the power to make it fail, you have very little control over the outcome unless you can prove without a doubt that you didn't have alcohol that night. In most cases people plead guilty even if they are innocent because they have no way to prove it unless they have verifiable evidence that the machine was faulty or they have witness accounts. Either way, the entire trial can cost tens of thousands just because of blind faith in science.

How many times has something like that happened?(source) Most of the time they are so wasted and still claiming that they didn't drink. The very minuscule portion of times that it happens can statistically be ignored.

[Lucin]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I am no history expert but only Turks like to claim there were no Armenians loooooong before Christianity showed up We have had a very proud and distinguished culture and identity even from the sun-worshiping days.

I see your point, your stance is clear. But Karo is emanating contradictions...

I don't see a contradiction... If anything it's appropriate because he fought against coercion and the forced acceptance of another's religion.

All he did was in the name of the Christian faith..

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

What is wrong with being an atheist?

That piece of philosophy to me seems as an attempt to find a link that in my opinion doesn't exist in religion. they find a minor link but choose to ignore everything else in the religion.
How can people follow a book that basics of the universe wrong, aka sun turning around the earth?

So because a book states one wrong thing you should ignore everything else? The Bible and other holy texts are meant as guidelines and as the first step toward knowing the divine. I for one am not a fundamentalist when it comes to the Bible or Christianity in general. But I see wisdom when I read a number of passages in the Bible, and whether it is truly the word of God or not, the ideas that are conveyed to me are good for my mind and my soul.


It's not an attempt, it does link the major ideas of the world religions. Does it seem like coincidence to you that the majority of religions have basic tenants, such as do not kill, or defining the steps to living a virtuous life? People's understanding of modern religions is quite poor and this is due not only to the organizing religious bodies but also the fact that most people are too lazy to dig deeper into the subject. A little factoid is that ancient Greeks, the learned ones among them, such as Plato, did not actually believe in the Greeks gods the way the common people did. Plato and others like him were initiates of esoteric groups, what is nowadays called Mystery Groups. Gurdjieff also said you could call his teachings a form of esoteric Christianty, but he correctly said that most people's definition of Christianity and understanding of it were lacking and not in line with what the ancient thoughts, and according to his understanding, this bastardized religions, not just Christianity. I am no expert on mysticism, I have been reading bits and pieces of it for sometime now, but I encourage anyone who really wants to dig into the matters and the heart of religions to find out about the mystical/esoteric aspects of each religion.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I didn't say you are ignorant. But according to what you said, it was clear you hadn't grasped the point.

I don't see a contradiction... If anything it's appropriate because he fought against coercion and the forced acceptance of another's religion.
But, I'm sure Karo can speak for himself.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Congratulations, you are officially an intellectual! Curious, why have you then put proudly Vartan Mamikonian as your avatar?

Because I see Vartan for what he really was, a general fighting to get more power and grow his own strength and that of his allies. Or do you really believe the myths that are being told today?

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Nah that's not it, maybe you should read up a bit more on Armenian History to see what I meant...

I am no history expert but only Turks like to claim there were no Armenians loooooong before Christianity showed up We have had a very proud and distinguished culture and identity even from the sun-worshiping days.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Didn't the Roman Empire divide into 2 somewhere in the 3rd century allowing 2 emperors to oversee the East an West half respectively?

What does that have to do with them converting to Christianity? The two emperors had much more power than the ones that came before Constantine even though they controlled a smaller area, because each of them viewed himself as the voice of god on earth and this was much stronger in the middle ages. When you again had two emperors, both of them thought that they would be the ones fighting the apocalypse and prepare for the return of Christ. They were closest thing to the real god that existed.

[Lucin]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I know exactly what you meant, thank you. You shouldn't assume I'm ignorant about our history.

I didn't say you are ignorant. But according to what you said, it was clear you hadn't grasped the point.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Nah that's not it, maybe you should read up a bit more on Armenian History to see what I meant...

I know exactly what you meant, thank you. You shouldn't assume I'm ignorant about our history.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

No ... The state would present their case and their evidence (the breathalyzer reading) and the defendant would highlight the error rate and whatever else. If the state's evidence isn't reliable, it will be given less weight, etc.
I knew when I was adding that bit about the criminal standard of proof that you'd run with that and ignore the larger point. ZOMG, I think I just proved I'm psychic!

The larger point is that when a scientific instrument fails, or the police have the power to make it fail, you have very little control over the outcome unless you can prove without a doubt that you didn't have alcohol that night. In most cases people plead guilty even if they are innocent because they have no way to prove it unless they have verifiable evidence that the machine was faulty or they have witness accounts. Either way, the entire trial can cost tens of thousands just because of blind faith in science.