Armenian lesbians/gays

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Flamenkita... how ever you want to slice it, western life isn't meant for family. I am certain I'll never experience what it will feel like to be a grandfather and I feel robbed of a life that could have been so much more fulfilling. None of it was my fault, in fact I was financially and emotionally prepared to start a family in my mid 20's. Since that didn't materialize due to the "party" and drama scene that so many Armenians girls were wrapped up in, I decided to put things on a back burner and have probably done a lot of dumb things with money and time that should have went towards a family. If you haven't noticed, most Armenian guys aren't into "relationships"... we don't believe in wasting our time with immature western pass times.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

You know, maybe I'm in a bit of a privileged position because the women I know are very decent women who've been hurt by guys who are buffoons. They are not of the sort who want to get pregnant to hook a guy. On the contrary, if they are alone it's because they are too honest about what they want in life. With one friend, in fact, her fiance came to her at the 11th hour, after the reception hall had been rented and the wedding dress bought, and told her he wasn't ready to get married.

Regarding my friend who decided to have a baby, I think this will help clarify. She was approaching 40 and after a lot of thinking and deliberating, decided she wanted to have a baby. Then she met and started dating a guy. The relationship was going well, but she told him, "Listen I want to have a baby, and before I met you, I went through all the medical clearances to get IVF via sperm donation. I don't want you to be pressured into staying in this relationship if it isn't what you want. If you want to still be together, realize that having a child is my priority right now. I don't expect you to be part of it in any way." So, the guy said, "Well, why go through IVF? I'd be happy to be your donor." And she got pregnant. But the original conditions held. She wasn't ready to marry him because the relationship was new. She didn't want to obligate him beyond his volunteering to father a baby. She was clear that she expected no financial support from him whatsoever, and that he was free to walk away whenever he needed to. The baby carries her last name. As it turns out, their relationship is continuing to evolve, and it may very well be that they will marry some day. But if they do, it will be for the right reasons, and her biological clock will have had nothing to do with it. It's a win-win situation, afaic.

If people aren't finding appropriate partners in life, there are many different reasons for it. I know that lots of women are misguided in their approach, as are many men. Also, there is too much emphasis put on marriage. I'm not saying that marriage is bad or not important, but when it becomes primary, and it is given as the only legitimate way of being in the world, then the quality of the relationship is compromised.

My husband and I met when we were in our late 30's. Actually, we had grown up in the same community, but were both kind of on the outer edges, and we both had strong opinions about each other. He thought I was a snooty xxxxx, and I kind of was because of all the times I'd been burned by guys who objectified me and couldn't see me as someone with a mind and with feelings. I thought he was loud and annoying, and he was because he was tired of having to keep his opinions to himself about the stupidity of some aspects of our culture. He was tired of women who were after him for his financial potential (a physician). We were both very focused on our education and determined to marry well or not marry at all. He had dated many women. I had dated many men. We both knew exactly what we didn't want by the time we met. We were introduced by friends who had nothing to do with the community and who didn't know we already knew each other. Our connection as adults was easy and immediate, just two people putting their hopes and dreams on the table. We had both been living independently for many years already. And we lived together for about 2 years before we got married. Our families, both pretty traditional in their ideas, were so happy we had gotten together, that they had absolutely no problem with our living together. A formal wedding was actually superfluous in our case, and all things being equal, we probably would have foregone the pomp and circumstance because it really didn't change anything for us, except put us back about 15K. He is a very generous man. I am a very frugal woman. That's an excellent combination because there isn't much that I need, beyond my good health and the basics, to keep me happy in life. I don't need manicures or pedicures. I don't need a fancy car or designer clothes. I don't really care to dine out much, as I love to cook and prefer to do it myself. I've already traveled the world, and if I travel again, it will be to expose my kids to new cultures and ideas. It will be for them first, and for me because of them.

You see? I'm a Westernized woman, too. But I'm not like KK. I wasn't a virgin when I got married, and I'd had plenty of experiences. But that didn't prevent me from having the kind of deep emotional connection and forever commitment to my husband and children. My husband and I are equally educated. I never looked down my nose at him. I never had a reason to. And he wanted a fully formed person as a life partner. He could have had lots of opportunities to meet and marry women who were far more focused on their physical appearance and material comforts and privileges. But that's not what he wanted.

It's really important to figure out what it is that you don't want, and what it is that you want. If people are ending up alone in life, it may have something to do that is internal to them. They may have some agency in how they are perceived by others. And all these things can be worked through.

I feel like I went off on a tangent, but I'm hoping that I've de-satanized myself a little bit.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

On this specific point I partly sympathize because there are a lot of Armenian guys who are buffoons for one reason or another. However on average the women are not much better in caliber, if at all. So either your friends are exceptions to the rule or you are biased towards them because they’re your friends.

This one is spot on.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

But culture and tradition do control how people think and feel, and they are just as arbitrary as other people's opinions.

How is this a reply to my last post? You ignored everything I said and stated something different. Maybe you quoted me by mistake.

Wrt to women and biological clocks, wouldn't it be better if we could allbe honest about our hopes and needs? And wouldn't you prefer to know that a woman has taken matters into her own hands by making her biological clock her own problem and not yours.

I would have no problem if the clock remained their problem and theirs only. I would also have no problem if they were honest about their intentions. However, it becomes a threat to men when certain types of women create “accidents” to get pregnant in order to hook a guy in who is not ready to be a father. I have heard too many true stories like this. The man has no legal right to make a decision about keeping the baby, even though he has to provide a large amount of his income in child support, much of his time, as well as his emotional energy towards something he never signed up for. At the same time, the woman who planned the deception now gains all the power over him and essentially has him hostage. God forbid he gets on the woman’s bad side for any reason or does things one degree different than how she wants it done, she can have the courts all over him and his life will be over. This is when the biological clock becomes a problem for men, and I’ve seen this happen time after time. Since I knew the warning signs beforehand, I prevented it from happening to me.

One of my best friends just had a baby. The man she was dating wasn't ready, and she wasn't sure she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him. They are still together, but there is no pressure to get married. She is a tenured professor and has the ability to care for herself and her child.

Do you mean to tell me she had the baby even though the guy took reasonable precautions to prevent the pregnancy and was not on board with being a father? I would love to know the details if you don’t mind.

So, those same women who you seem to perceive as powerless suddenly change the paradigm for themselves, and now it's the men who are left searching.

I think you understood me backwards- I’ve been saying the average woman has all the power over the average man and many times chooses to use that power in a cruel way, which has resulted in millions of men who have ZERO female options in life. I’ve never seen this addressed by anybody even though it’s a clear epidemic in today’s society.

On the other hand the case of the lonely woman happens MUCH less frequently. And the reason why those few women end up lonely is the most telling sign of what I’m saying. Those women are lonely not due to lack of options- They are lonely because they don’t like any of their multitude of options. That’s a major difference, a clear imbalance, which someone like you who claims to be humanistic surely should have some sympathy towards.

Of course part of the reason why women have so much power is the fault of men (or lack of real men) who give women WAY too much attention and importance. This gets into a slightly different topic though.

Part of why my Armenian girlfriends who are in their 30's and not yet married is because they are fixated on finding Armenian men. But it isn't easy to find an Armenian man who isn't fixated on antiquated models of intimacy and relationships.

On this specific point I partly sympathize because there are a lot of Armenian guys who are buffoons for one reason or another. However on average the women are not much better in caliber, if at all. So either your friends are exceptions to the rule or you are biased towards them because they’re your friends.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Can you please not label her as 'Armenian'. I'm sick of this.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Is KK the only "other" Armenian woman in the universe?

I have no interest in her or in anything she does. Nor do any of my friends.

Can you please not label her as 'Armenian'. I'm sick of this.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

If the US doesn't attack Iran within the next 5 years, I'll chug down a bottle of vodka and drop a lit match down my throat.

That will truly be a tremendous disastrous mistake for the whole world.

Every day my heart breaks over what is happening in Syria.

[ADandelion]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

If the US doesn't attack Iran within the next 5 years, I'll chug down a bottle of vodka and drop a lit match down my throat.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

You're right, what was I thinking. Armenia is one war away from either being wiped off the map or wiping others off the map. Those in the know are working towards option 2 (hopefully).

Payts apsos vor yeraz er...

Keep dreaming. If Armenians are wiped out it will be by their own hands.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Is KK the only "other" Armenian woman in the universe?

I have no interest in her or in anything she does. Nor do any of my friends.