Armenian lesbians/gays

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Like the man said, "Thou doth protest too much".

People who say "no" a lot, and seek out opportunities where they can say "no", are really only fighting their own overwhelming urges to say "yes".

[Mos]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Hey Mos, why so angry? If it were up to people like you and that crazy dude Gor whatever his last name who is spewing crap about multiculturalism, etc., Armenia would look no different that Taliban Afghanistan. That's not an Armenia I want to live in or raise my children in. And I don't think very many educated or enlightened individuals would be OK with living in a place like that. Already there is a drain. What would happen if Armenistan actually came to be?

Well Armenia fortunately has still not given in entirely to the multiculturalism ideals. The fact is multiculturalism is an utter failure. Both the French and German presidents have admitted that (are they Taliban?). In order for Armenia to be strong and thrive you need to protect our Christian values, you need a patriotic youth, you need a country where Armenian culture and patriotism is at the forefront, not giving in, in order to "accommodate" other cultures and for Armenian culture to get shoved aside for these secondary culture. More so there are some sub-culture (e.g. emo/statanic worship) that's dangerous to the vulnerable youth and cannot be tolerated and same with radical feminism that can destroy the family unit. It's not making Armenia into Afghanistan, it's making Armenia in a stronger, more patriotic, and confident society.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Which is just like making it into Afghanistan. You cannot put back into a mold something that has been out of a mold. Also, if you are against multicultural ideals, then what sort of ideals are you for? Isolationism? Backwardness?

BTW, I am one of those radical feminists that you seem to dislike, in case you haven't guessed. I am married to an Armenian man who is very happy to be with a woman who is his equal and with whom he can have a full experience of life. In other words, sometimes he's on top, sometimes I'm on top, in every part of life. We have two children, and we are raising them to be free-thinking, creative individuals who aren't limited by their gender and who aren't limited by our notions of what the "good life" might be. We are on this planet for only 80 years, if we're lucky. There is no afterlife. There is no reward in heaven. Who is anyone to impose their narrow ideology onto me or my children?

These extreme, right wing ideas will be the end of Armenia as a viable culture and nation.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Why does the family unit have to be based upon some people being more valued than others? Some people having more control over the destinies of others? Parents dictating what children should study or become, or who they should love or marry? Also? Before folks start preaching family values, God, patriotism, they should look into solving the problems of families in Armenia who feel they have no option but to send their young daughters to Turkey to "work" (i.e. sex labor) and send money home because it would be beneath the menfolk to take up menial jobs. More often than not, it is those extreme patriarchal ideas that lead to degeneration, not the other way around.

[Siggie]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Well Armenia fortunately has still not given in entirely to the multiculturalism ideals. The fact is multiculturalism is an utter failure. Both the French and German presidents have admitted that (are they Taliban?). In order for Armenia to be strong and thrive you need to protect our Christian values, you need a patriotic youth, you need a country where Armenian culture and patriotism is at the forefront, not giving in, in order to "accommodate" other cultures and for Armenian culture to get shoved aside for these secondary culture. More so there are some sub-culture (e.g. emo/statanic worship) that's dangerous to the vulnerable youth and cannot be tolerated and same with radical feminism that can destroy the family unit. It's not making Armenia into Afghanistan, it's making Armenia in a stronger, more patriotic, and confident society.

If youth are vulnerable and impressionable, isn't it wrong too to take advantage of their trust and tell them scary fairy tales about an imaginary meanie in the sky? :-/
If you do x, you will burn for all eternity. Sweet dreams, baby!

And doesn't ethnocentrism lead to conflict with those around us? Is that good for the countries and their citizens?

How have the old ways you seem to want to preserve worked for us? Explain which things you want to preserve and how you think they're good for all or most or whatever...

[Sip]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I also want to point out some craziness here that goes unnoticed. I think the biggest objection I see against homosexuals is the act of sex. Everyone is so fixated on that particular act and they jump up and down screaming how it is wrong, immoral, perverted, destructive to cute kittens, etc etc.

Well .. the best way to address this actually is to FORCE the gay couples to get married. If that doesn't end them having sex very quickly, nothing will.

[Siggie]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I also want to point out some craziness here that goes unnoticed. I think the biggest objection I see against homosexuals is the act of sex. Everyone is so fixated on that particular act and they jump up and down screaming how it is wrong, immoral, perverted, destructive to cute kittens, etc etc.

Well .. the best way to address this actually is to FORCE the gay couples to get married. If that doesn't end them having sex very quickly, nothing will.

Ha! I know what else would do it... Requiring they adopt their 2.5 children!


Yes, I think some of it must be related to squeamishness and other unease with the sexual act, but that's easy. STOP thinking about gay men having sex if it makes you uncomfortable.
I'm limiting this statement to gay men because I've never heard anyone complain that the females having sex is depraved and perverted.

It was also pointed out that this was illegal as if that means anything... Sodomy was also once on the books in every state. I don't know why everyone thinks that the way things were done in the past is necessarily better.
Perhaps it just reflects a natural fear of change.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Ha! I know what else would do it... Requiring they adopt their 2.5 children!


Yes, I think some of it must be related to squeamishness and other unease with the sexual act, but that's easy. STOP thinking about gay men having sex if it makes you uncomfortable.
I'm limiting this statement to gay men because I've never heard anyone complain that the females having sex is depraved and perverted.

It was also pointed out that this was illegal as if that means anything... Sodomy was also once on the books in every state. I don't know why everyone thinks that the way things were done in the past is necessarily better.
Perhaps it just reflects a natural fear of change.

That is because when women are involved it is art, if someone wants I can always provide some pics

[Mos]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Which is just like making it into Afghanistan. You cannot put back into a mold something that has been out of a mold. Also, if you are against multicultural ideals, then what sort of ideals are you for? Isolationism? Backwardness?

BTW, I am one of those radical feminists that you seem to dislike, in case you haven't guessed. I am married to an Armenian man who is very happy to be with a woman who is his equal and with whom he can have a full experience of life. In other words, sometimes he's on top, sometimes I'm on top, in every part of life. We have two children, and we are raising them to be free-thinking, creative individuals who aren't limited by their gender and who aren't limited by our notions of what the "good life" might be. We are on this planet for only 80 years, if we're lucky. There is no afterlife. There is no reward in heaven. Who is anyone to impose their narrow ideology onto me or my children?

These extreme, right wing ideas will be the end of Armenia as a viable culture and nation.

Wait are you Armenian or just your husband?? What's your background?

I'm for having a strong society based on Armenian cultural ideals, Christian values, not making society have to conform to each and every culture that comes in. As I said, Europeans are hitting themselves in the head for the failed policy of multiculturalism, it has destroyed their society.

First off my ideas are not extreme, right wing, more it's a response to a radical culturally left wing that's imposing its values via globalisation. I'm not imposing anything really I just want the maintaining of Armenian Society as it has always been not to be changed into a very Westernised, unrecognisable society.

Why does the family unit have to be based upon some people being more valued than others? Some people having more control over the destinies of others? Parents dictating what children should study or become, or who they should love or marry? Also? Before folks start preaching family values, God, patriotism, they should look into solving the problems of families in Armenia who feel they have no option but to send their young daughters to Turkey to "work" (i.e. sex labor) and send money home because it would be beneath the menfolk to take up menial jobs. More often than not, it is those extreme patriarchal ideas that lead to degeneration, not the other way around.

Families who send their children to sex labour should be severely punished. That doesn't come from patriarchal ideas, many of those families don't have father figures, because the fathers are working in Moscow as migrant workers. Those children have grown up corrupt along with the mothers to agree to such a thing. There are bad seeds in every society, fortunately it's very small amount of seeds. Family unit, respect to parents, growing up with respectable values, and so forth is what leads to the success of the children morally .

If youth are vulnerable and impressionable, isn't it wrong too to take advantage of their trust and tell them scary fairy tales about an imaginary meanie in the sky? :-/
If you do x, you will burn for all eternity. Sweet dreams, baby!

And doesn't ethnocentrism lead to conflict with those around us? Is that good for the countries and their citizens?

How have the old ways you seem to want to preserve worked for us? Explain which things you want to preserve and how you think they're good for all or most or whatever...

Christian values are good foundation for one's moral character in his early years. It's not about using religion to teach them about how world works, but using it to teach them some important moral/philosophical messages.

If we don't have ethnocentrism, that will lead to assimilation/mixing and dwindle our people. Just look at the ethnocentrism of Turks or Azeris and the resulting high birth rate.

I want to preserve the Armenian society and it's conservative cultural character. Without that, our identities will be diluted into a sea of globalisation and multi-culturalism. Patriotism will dwindle and our nation weaken.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Mos, how did you come to know about what Armenian society and its conservative cultural character looks like? What are your sources for this information? Why do we want our nation to persevere? What nation are you speaking of? My sense is that some folks want to model the future on some kind of idealized past. But once you look into the past, really look into it, there was nothing much to idealize about it. We were just as backward as our neighbors. Being Christian does not differentiate us all that much. You are assuming that all Armenian identities tend toward conservative values, and really, nothing could be further from the truth. What happens then is that some people feel like they have the right to tell everyone else what is right for them. And then you get a bunch of oligarchs running the show, etc. etc... I sometimes wonder if the Meg Azg types in Armenia aren't actually funded and/or supported by the oligarchs, much like the Tea Party folks in the US are supported by the Koch brothers.

Honestly, when I read things like "family unit, respect to parents, growing up with respectable values", I think these are all a defense against man's true nature, all those things that drive ingenuity, creativity, passion. Armenians have always been diverse, decentralized, independent thinkers. And that decentralized character, a tendency toward globalism, is what has preserved a culture throughout the ages. Now all of a sudden there are people who are trying to push this idea that we should be unified under some kind of de-globalized, backward-looking ideology that hates everything that doesn't feed into it and support it. I am not optimistic about the future of the Armenian nation.

And yes, I am Armenian on both sides of my family. My husband is as well. Not sure why it matters to you, though.