Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

[Sako]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I think that the Armenian government should ...

The Armenian government has lied to us on more occasions then you can count. They have been screwing with us for the last 18 years and I don't know why you trust our officials so much. Do you live in Armenia?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

here is some extra news it seems that Stepanakert isn't happy with whats going on, is Serjik planning to do the same that got Levon from his throne in 1996. Because they way I see it the rest of the country will rise and with them the military

STEPANEKERT (Combined Sources)--Addressing the National Assembly of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, Foreign Minister Georgi Petrosian said that the people of Karabakh believe that the details of the so-called “roadmap” signed by Turkey, Armenia and Switzerland last week need to be disclosed.

Petrosian was answering parliament members' questions regarding the Armenia-Turkey agreement. The Karabakh deputies expressed concern that decision being made by Armenia on the roadmap agreement could be unbeneficial for Karabakh.

While saying that he believed that Karabakh would not be adversely affected by the Turkish-Armenian process, he reiterated the ongoing insistence by Karabakh that it be a part of the negotiation process.

Thus, he said, the upcoming meeting between Armenian and Azeri presidents on May 7, could not conclude with an agreement because Karabakh's positions have not been reflected.

“When the negotiations include the Karabakh side, we will be able to present our approaches, proposals and demands,” said Petrosian, adding that the Karabakh leadership would not accept any document that goes counter to the interests of the people of Karabakh.

Petrosian also pointed out that Karabakh sharply disagreed with some of the basic principles outlined in the so-called Madrid proposal, which serves as a guide for the OSCE Minsk Group negotiation process.

“I can say that Nagorno-Karabakh's position has not changed. Our right to self-determination, our independence and our security are principles that should be defended by any leader,” said Petrosian, adding that if these principles are disregarded during the process the Karabakh side will toughen its stance.

Following the National Assembly session, a member of the Democratic Party of Artsakh, Zhanna Galstyan, held a press conference, during which she held the Karabakh leadership accountable for the resolution of the Karabakh conflict.

“Today, the people of Karabakh believe that the most important achievement of the past 20 years, namely the unity of Armenia, the Diaspora and Karabakh are being threatened,” said Glastyan, who also chairs the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic Parliament's standing commission on defense and national security.

“We have always viewed the Artskah issue as a part of the Armenian Cause. And by threatening one of its components we are in fact threatening the entirety of the Armenian Cause,” said Galstyan.

She also took issue with the confidentiality surrounding the Karabakh negotiations, explaining that it was only the Armenian side that adhered to this principle, since the Turkish and Azeri press is filled with leaks about the so-called principles driving the negotiations.

She urged Foreign Minister Petrosian to confer with his colleagues in Armenia and tell them that “the time for such diplomatic games has long passed.”

“I believe that all the details of the negotiations must not only be provided to members of parliament but they must be explained to every citizen of Artsakh; To all the parents who lost children, wives who lost husbands, the orphans, to all those who spent their childhood in basements and cellars,” said Galstyan.

Galstyan also said that she would like to invite the foreign ministers of Karabakh and Armenia to the National Assembly for a frank discussion on the topic, adding however, that she believed “it was possible that the Armenian foreign minister wouldn't show.” For this reason, she said, Petrosian should speak with his counterpart Eduard Nalbandian “so that the next time he would be able to answer questions more completely”.

This way, she said, “united, as a nation, we will sit down and decide our next steps.”

From Asbarez

[Palavra]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Armenian families have a maximum of 4 children and small majorities have 5. Muslims have 12-15 children (If not more) so what happens then?

Turkish families do not have 12-15. Like armenians, max 4-5 and It is banned to marry more than one woman in Turkey.

[Mos]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Mos, I agree with you but I don't like the word "axpars".
I think that the Armenian government should invite the diaspora to be part of it, but the diaspora shoud support and respect the choice of those who live in Armenia. So unless the diaspora is invited by the Armenian government it should step aside and do its best to help Armenia negotiate the est deal
By the way, we don't know if it does not do it secretly or indirectly.

I have voted PROBABLY NOT but I think that the poll is missing: Should Armenian invite the diaspora to be part of the negotatiations?

well, we hayastancis call the diasporan armenians speaking the western dialect "axpars". There is a difference. Hayastancis came from Armenia (or at least at a small age) to other countries especailly US during the 90's especially early 90's. Axpars are well americanized into american culture, language because it is their grandparents who came from Ottoman Empire and some forgot about their Armenian identity and assimilated into whatever country. The difference is enough to call you guys axpars. There is cultural, hayastancis have a lot of the Soviet Armenian culture ( we use Russian words in speaking). The list can go on, but in the end many hayastancis refer to the diasporans or people who speak in the diaporan dialect as axpars. What is the problem?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

well, we hayastancis call the diasporan armenians speaking the western dialect "axpars". There is a difference. Hayastancis came from Armenia (or at least at a small age) to other countries especailly US during the 90's especially early 90's. Axpars are well americanized into american culture, language because it is their grandparents who came from Ottoman Empire and some forgot about their Armenian identity and assimilated into whatever country. The difference is enough to call you guys axpars. There is cultural, hayastancis have a lot of the Soviet Armenian culture ( we use Russian words in speaking). The list can go on, but in the end many hayastancis refer to the diasporans or people who speak in the diaporan dialect as axpars. What is the problem?

That you are dividing our people that what is wrong, like I've protested in the anti-Hayastanci threads I'll do it here too. Have you even seen what's going on now and what the president has been doing or that Dodi Gago even threatens to leave the coalition. Doesn't that make you start thinking why could the dog of the president want to leave the coalition. There is something fishy going on and I hope nothing goes wrong.

[Mos]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

That you are dividing our people that what is wrong, like I've protested in the anti-Hayastanci threads I'll do it here too. Have you even seen what's going on now and what the president has been doing or that Dodi Gago even threatens to leave the coalition. Doesn't that make you start thinking why could the dog of the president want to leave the coalition. There is something fishy going on and I hope nothing goes wrong.

It is not like I am trying to divide our people, we are already divided into 2 distinct halfs. Look, this division is happening because Serzh wants to open border and make relations with Turkey. Tell you the truth, an open border will help Armenia a big amount economically with goods coming in from EU. For example, my uncle has a few food markets in Yerevan, and with border open it will help a lot with him receiving goods from EU and even Turkey. I hate the fact that Diasporans want unite with Dashnaks against the Armenian government. Armenia is already in difficult situation, it is better for Diasporans to support Armenian government how difficult it may be to do. Many western armenians don't want good relations with turkey because they still remember relatives killed in genocide. I sympathize (my relatives too were killed in genocide) but since they don't live in Armenia they don't understand that remaining bitter with Turkey forever is not in Armenia's interest in future. Everyone knows there was genocide, even Turks who deny it know, it is not that the problem. It is all political and when it comes to political Armenia never wins because who are nations going to favor, powerful NATO Turkey who borders many middle eastern countries, or Armenia.

[Anoush]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Saco and Karothgreat; this is terrible news about Serge's top secrecy to negotiate with turkey and not discussing the matters with his own cabinet, his own government, the citizens of Armenia nor his compatriots Karabagh's governing bodies and the citizens of Karabagh.

It crossed my mind, but I hope that I am wrong. Is serge selling out to the enemy for money? or because his life was threatened by turkey?

This is sad news indeed.... very very sad news and very very frightening news for Armenia and the security of both our lands.

[hrai]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I have some sad news, guys . I don't know if you've heard about this yet but Serj apparently met with Turkish officials SECRETLY and decided to open the borders without us knowing. The radio's have been talking about all this very seriously. On TV, the prime minister continues to reassure us that nothing secret is going on but here's the catch. Newspapers in Turkey, including Hurriet if I'm not mistaken, were the first ones to mention that Turkish officials met with Armenian officials privately so it's not like the Armenians here just made up this story.

On TV, the prime minister frankly speaking seemed very nervous and had no freakin idea what he was talking about today. Last time he acted like this was when he was "reassuring" us all that the price of the US dollar wouldn't be going down. Guess what? .... IT DID, and this isn't the only time they've lied to us. I'm very serious. I think something fisheye's going on and I'm completely against these borders opening. 100%. One simple reason why is because our "officials" haven't been telling us anything about their plans ... just that everything will be ok. A new map has been drawn, I'm sure you've all heard. Ironic, isn’t it, that NO ONE has seen it yet? Hell, most don't even understand what it is completely or what it represents. It’s been awhile and many people have requested to see it and the gov. hasn’t shown anything yet. Our gov. is screwing with us like they've been doing for the last 18 years. I don't trust them and I don't think everything's going to be fine and dandy. I hope and pray that I'm wrong...



I bet it'll be sold sooner then that . . . the big faces in Armenia have sold everything else practically speaking, so why not sell this little piece of land? We have bigger enemies RIGHT HERE IN YEREVAN ... then in Turkey. Let's talk about them, shall we? It's about time. They are the real wolves …………



I completely agree. The thing I would like all of us to remember is that Armenia doesn't need this. I may be wrong but at the moment Turkey is the winner if the borders open. They are the ones that will get the most profits. THEY need the borders to be open ... WE DON'T. At least not right now. We're barely starting to get on our feet. Let's be serious about this. Our nation and our people are going through a VERY CRITICAL identity crisis and suddenly, Turkey wants to open our borders? Open your eyes, people. The end of our nation is much closer then we think or want to believe. Many people here are already talking about what a big liar Serj is. He isn't telling us everything about his plans and I don't know what to expect except the following:

WHEN (Not IF … anymore) the borders open, the Turkish gov. will PAY Turkish families to enter Armenia and settle down. What happens then, boys and girls, is that they start producing children EVERY YEAR and not just one or two. Remember, many Muslims, if not most, have more then one wife. So very soon, the Turkish population will grow year by year and that's where our problems will begin. Armenian families have a maximum of 4 children and small majorities have 5. Muslims have 12-15 children (If not more) so what happens then? Let me put it this way. Do you all know what happened to one of the Armenian towns near Meghri? Years back, it was an Armenian town but soon, almost no Armenians lived there. It completely became a Turkish town and eventually AUTOMATICALLY became a part of Turkey. If you wanted to go to Meghri BEFORE, you went through this town and it took you about 3-4 hours MAX to get there. Now, it takes you approx. 8-9 hours because you have to go via Kapan, not that other town (I forgot its name, I apologize).

There's a great chance that all this will take place again and I'm afraid that this time, not only will we lose one of our little towns ... but our COUNTRY itself! This is not far from reality. And even IF (and that's a big if) emigration becomes very difficult for the Turks thanks to a bunch of laws, it won't change much. The Turks will enter our country gradually and in a matter of years, everything will begin to change. The Armenians right now are having a rough time with their own people so I can expect what will happen when the Turks come in. They will use us to their advantage like they have for years.

We have a very serious identity crisis, people. Our culture, our music, our art, EVERYTHING is threatened because they aren't receiving the attention they deserve financially, morally, or from the Armenian people :angry: . So when the Turks come, mark my words, our entire culture will be threatened more then ever before. We are not ready for such a big step. Most Turks still hate us and most Armenians hate them as well. Right now, we need to talk more and try to inspire friendship and more conversations. Instead, some retards decide to open our borders and this basically FORCES us to artificially work things out and I don't expect anything pretty to come out of it.

Obama visited Turkey as we all know and you know what he said? He said that if Turkey doesn't agree to open its borders without preconditions, he will use the word Genocide in his speech. So what does this mean, my friends? It means that America and not particularly Turkey or Armenia wants these borders to open up and not simply to help us out. I mean, come on, Armenia doesn't really gain much if these borders open up. Let's be clear about this. So the question is, why does Obama want these borders open??? Or better yet ... who else wants these borders opened?

I have a very bad feeling about this and I fear we have a lot of problems waiting for us. Let's stay strong my brothers and sisters . . . . . . . What else can we do? If we were strong before, we wouldn't be in this current state. I blame no one but the Armenian populace. Most Armenians here think only about themselves, never standing together with the other Armenians. Everyone thinks only about his/her skin. That's why we have always BEEN .... and will always BE broken down and abused by the bullies. We need to stand together ... ALWAYS, not only on April 24th . We have to ALWAYS BE TOGETHER. Our nation is talented. Our people have the ability to be strong. We are smart ... just not smart enough to stick together.

I'm sorry guys but I have to say this ... perhaps it will help us learn ...

.::Shame on us::.

Sad news indeed. But these could be more osman intrigues. tyrkish newspaper reports "secret meetings" and immediately opens splits with RA government, between people & government, between people. the turcs will stop at nothing to achieve their goals. Everyone must be on their guard for the tricks of these serpents. The hysterical baboons are doing their part with wild claims on our heritage.
Perhaps Russia knows what each wants when they propose arms to the baboons and money to our leaders....
Open borders will see a flood of tatars into RA, Saco, you're right, Armenia needs more time before border opens to strengthen and grow republic.
Armenia is not doing great,yet, but it will disappear if the borders open.

[Pazooki]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Vay theret anidzem Serzh.

Selling out your own country for money...

Sad...

[Sako]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Turkish families do not have 12-15. Like armenians, max 4-5 and It is banned to marry more than one woman in Turkey.

Really? Thanks for letting me know, Palavra. Most Muslim's have more then one wife so or at least have the right to have more then one wife so you can understand my confusion. In most countries, Muslims have tons of children so that's basically why I said that. No disrespect intended although I'm almost completely against that.

Saco and Karothgreat; this is terrible news about Serge's top secrecy to negotiate with turkey and not discussing the matters with his own cabinet, his own government, the citizens of Armenia nor his compatriots Karabagh's governing bodies and the citizens of Karabagh.

It crossed my mind, but I hope that I am wrong.

So do I but for some reason, I can't seem to feel that way .

Is serge selling out to the enemy for money? or because his life was threatened by turkey?

You'd be surprised ... He's doing this to brighten up his career. Yesterday, one very serious person was stating that no one trusts Serj anymore and now he want's to open the borders and basically look better in the eyes of the European gov. Can you believe this midget? He's doing all this for his CAREER. Inch vochkhar joghovurdenk ara bayts. Kutu vontsenk AMEN ANKAM UTUM? Kani ankam petka kututsnen glkhneris vor haskananank inch enk anum? Yes batsi mezanits VOCHMEKIN CHEM MEGHADRUM.

This is sad news indeed.... very very sad news and very very frightening news for Armenia and the security of both our lands.

I don't blame anyone but the Armenian people. Period.

Vay theret anidzem Serzh.

I don't blame SERJ alone, I blame the Armenian people the most because we allowed punks to rule our country physically and mentally. This is what we asked for ...

Open borders will see a flood of tatars into RA, Saco, you're right, Armenia needs more time before border opens to strengthen and grow republic.

Armenia is not doing great,yet, but it will disappear if the borders open.

Let's pack our bags friends . . . because I don't see anyone standing up to this. The Armenians should be barging into parliament right now and working together because if they don't ... everything's over. Who cares though? Right now, I can't see all this happening, no one is working together, so I'm slowly preparing to meet a bunch of Turks in Zvartnots while I wait for my flight. If this is how my people are going to be dealing with my country then I don't want to live here anymore and see her suffer. I can't help my country alone. We all have to work together. And if I can't, I don't want to live here anymore.

My hopes will never die ... I'll always help our people unite ... but I'm starting to hate these xxxxxes here more then EVER. Let's see what they have in store for us once these borders open and SCREW THEM if they harm my country again like they have for 18 years . Screw them all. Duk mayrakan kat chek khumel curisner! You are not Armenians.

YOU ARE TRAITORS