Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The difference between you and him, is that he was in the very location where the russian army bombarded and razed to the ground.
His friends died....
His villagers were deported....
What were you doing, in June 1992 ?

For blind russophiles, not loving and defending every betrayal of russia, is automatically russophobia and hatred....
Slave mentality, when you take us...
We even do not have the right to protest....

At least on such a tragedy as this episode, you should refrain from your dishonest blabla...
This episode is well, perfectly known.
All Artsakhians do know who did what...
All do remember the blond hairs, tall silhouettes of slavons....

It does not fit your mindset, but yet it is cruel reality.
I wish it wasn't.
Today Getashen and Gulistan, to say the least, would be ours...
Dozens of splendid boys would be among us...

Stop throwing words and insults right and left man. This is how many times and how many issues I point criticisms at your posts and the only thing you do is
fire blank shots in the air with big words and accusations.
In 1991 Igor was still in Karabakh comitee shuttling back and forth between moscow and yerevan(and soaping himself around russian's back just like he did in soviet times). That was just before he was kicked out by his fellow komitee members, like Silva Kaputikian.
For you any person not taking blindly your cheap propaganda is a russophile.
I will not stand by while you or your Igor throw insults at my countriy's intelligencia or accuse them of something as ridiculous as this , in order to justify outraguous and sick hatratefull imagination.
Before Igor opens up his mouth, why doesn't he bring any of his own articles or essays about a russian agression in 1992 that he wrote at that time?
Does he have any? It is very easy to dig in an old newspaper or article and present it as evidence. Why was he silent ha? Was he covering up for russians too? You guys think that 21 years is enough to metamorph Igors into somebody else and public taking it silent when he throws insults at other intellectuals?
Blond Hair...tall silhuettes.... Is this an intelligence? or you think that it is enough for public's intelligence?
You cannot cover up a stupid propaganda by crying about Gulistan, Getashen or other tragedies. Our hearts mourn, but our minds are sharp too.
The episode you are trying to distort IS PERFECTLY KNOWN. Yes there were russians, ukrainians, belorussians, chechens, Kazakhs, Uzbeks from that regiment that were paid by azeris and participated with them in battles. But why not say Kazakhistan or Belarus or ukrainia have commited an agression too?
Our intelligencia has covered it up in depth at that time and condemned the use of left over soviet regiments as mercenaries by azerbaijan.
It were the Ukrainian pilots that bombed Stepanakert so many times and untill the end of war, Why does not Igor condemn Ukrain as having commited an aggression towards Artsakh?

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

to me Artsakh is our last stand as Armenians, not sure what happens in Yerevan who is under immense pressure from outside that will effect the independence of NKR.

Very good discussion guys, both sides make valid points and Vrej is right in saying that an Armenian president must be able to joggle the major powers, with style, in order to maintain our sovereignty and existence and increase our own foreign relations......and not just hide under the Russian skirt just to live another day.
I think President Sarkissian is doing a good job considering everything else.....I know many don't agree on both sides of the Russian fanboy club and the haters, lol

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

My dear,
The biggest threat to Artsakh is not Baku, nor Ankara.
It is Moskva.

The biggest threat to Artsakh is Yerevan because Yerevan has more influence in Artsakh than any other external power and thus is in the postion to inflict the most damage to it. Over the last 15 years every setback, or decline, or negative outcome in Artsakh originated in Yerevan. Nothing at all originated in Turkey, Russia merely supported the continuing stalemate while arming both sides, and Azerbaijan did nothing unexpected and, for the present anyway, can do nothing to alter that stalemate.

[Artashes]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

There is no point in arguing with Vrej - his hatred is blind and has devoured his soul. To Artashes and others here it is worthy to point out that Russia acts in its own interest and has every right to do so.The same people who complain about the way it is acting with Armenia would be singing praises if Armenia acted the same way with Russia or any other country. It is this hypocrisy that runs deep in all Armenian forums and spoils most arguments. We expect to get freebies from Russia even after we spat in its face by being the loudest and unrivaled when it came to leaving the soviet union. Yes that was the same union that provided living standards Armenians of Armenia have yet to enjoy since the soviet days and could possibly again see in the new Eurasion union led by you know who. There so much utter bs spewed here by russophobes and it seems to be effective in swaying opinions of many here. Vrej makes it sound like it is the USA that wants to save us and Russia that wants to kill us but as usual he is full of smelly bs. He makes it sound like the USA is willing to stand up to turkey while Russia just wants to appease it. Yeh that is why Russia has recognized the Armenian genocide while USA will not utter the G word. It is utter stupidity that spewed here by the likes of Vrej and Gegeve that seems to resonate with some of you while obvious facts get lost somehow. Where would the Armenians in Syria be todayif it was not for Russian intervention?Well you may have guessed it right if you said dead at the hands of turkish backed religious nuttjobs who happen to be supported by the power that vrej claims wants to save us(USA). It is not easy to get the facts in todays world because the media is owned by the very people who want to screw you but even with that as a given a simple logical analyzes will expose the likes of vrej for the utter bs that they represent and try to spread. So tell us dear mr USA loving vrej-why is uncle sam hiding that carpet gifted to him by armenian orphans of the genocide? You better watch what you write though caus you know who is watching every word you type so make sure to butter up for your dear uncle.

That is a very good point you make about Russia having every right to act in its own best interest.
It is also true when you point out that I am advocating Armenia to act in its best interests.
I can see were I have a conflict of perspective.
On certain occasions in my life I have tried to help someone out. I remember meeting someone who's vision was week but he did not have the money for an eye doctor or follow up prescription etc.. I ended up paying for doctor & contact lenses + follow up doctor visits & various other important things like special eye drops & cleaners etc..
I never asked for the money back & have never seen that person since. I do remember his amazement at being able to see across the street & the pleasure it brought him.
Financially speaking at that time it was not in my best interest to do this. But I did it anyway for other reasons (this guy was damn near blind) that I felt were important.
Here I am with 27/20 vision & he couldn't make out faces from 10ft or less.
This back and forth argument has sure got me confused. I looked for clarity but got something else.
Artashes

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

we also know that NATO is against independence for Karabakh and was silent when Armenians were being massacred

we can say that NATO has followed an anti-Armenian policy

But in reality, the blame first goes to Armenians then to any external powers or blocs

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The difference between you and him, is that he was in the very location where the russian army bombarded and razed to the ground.
His friends died....
His villagers were deported....
What were you doing, in June 1992 ?

For blind russophiles, not loving and defending every betrayal of russia, is automatically russophobia and hatred....
Slave mentality, when you take us...
We even do not have the right to protest....

At least on such a tragedy as this episode, you should refrain from your dishonest blabla...
This episode is well, perfectly known.
All Artsakhians do know who did what...
All do remember the blond hairs, tall silhouettes of slavons....

It does not fit your mindset, but yet it is cruel reality.
I wish it wasn't.
Today Getashen and Gulistan, to say the least, would be ours...
Dozens of splendid boys would be among us...

summer of 1992 was a terrible time, yes

but those who want a comfortable life are not interested in remembering it!

We don't know what happened exactly in Russian politics, we know that the Armenian side suffered terrible losses

Can it happen again? We don't know

We know that 95% of Armenians are not able to trust themselves. They will look for Russia or another power instead of relying on themselves

Dashnak, Ramgavar or Armenian church - 100% same mentality!

[Vrej1915]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Look at this. THIS man joins all the events from 1989 to 1992 as "one historic event" with a single brushstroke, then puts in a number (1000) as to Armenians killed in that time frame, then joins the words soviet-rusian troops making it a "solely russian provocation" then states that neither state duma nor the russian government has anyhow addressed theese events, implying responsibility and a coverup by russia. He sumes up that "every act of russians is clear" (plural words can make it easier to convey that "russians" are enemies) Enough to boil your blood right?
He then states that neither Yerevan nor stepanakert have stated anything about it and have not produced a "single monument" to theese events. So implies that both Armenia's or Artsakh's governments have been part of a conspiracy in cover up for russians in past 21 years since. So both governments have been covering it up for so long right? First he puts the tragic events then focuses the reader in russian guilt then he throws Armenia and Artsakh in there with ease to share the guilt about singular event that nobody else knows, because it was covered up by those mentioned. Are you guys following? Is it fearfull and conspiracyfull enough? Are you angry enough? You should be ready to tear up any russians you see, along with Armenian and Artsakh governments by now.
He then throws in more villains, the whole Armenian intellectuals "not a single so called writer" has produced anything about it. Now even all Armenian intellectuals, including those who were present on the battlefields(his words also apply to battlefield commanders, because they have also recounted those times without mentioning those events as "russian agression"), are enemies. Any of you get shortness of breath yet? Going like this, he could proove to all Armenians that all Armenians are their enemies, you know.
He then gives the name of Zori Balayan. Aha. killed another rabbit with that shot.
So all those years all theese people (writers and intellectuals also) Had two purposes, make Armenians subject to Russia and enrich themselfs(according to him).
If you were a patriot living in Armenia, you would want to jump and emigrate as soon as you can by now, because according to Muradyan, allmost everyone else is a cospirator there. Talk about who and with what feed the emigration.
He then tells us that history has been distorted in russia's favor over the past years. You read it? so the history has been distorted by Armenian, Artsakh governments. By all the intellectuals and veterans. Now you are ready to accept that your memory has been liquidated. He then tries to fill up your memory gaps as to russian's true purpose, that they are trying to prove that you do not have the "right to display human will" and "right to homeland". How horrible they can be? Your so called governments and intellectuals included.
You had a sovereignity and lost it on sptember 3. You see your memory does not even go back as far as before september 3. You have amnesia and should recover from it by reading and believing what Igor Mouradyan and his circle tells ya.
Ah not to forget... Keep remembering that russia commited an agression towards you on 13th june 1992. They are the aggressors not the turks ha (have you heard Igor mention an azeri agression? So don't think about it, OK?).

This is what I call blind russofobia and distotion of facts. This is when some circles think that Armenians are stupid enough, so anything can be said. By fueling dicontent with whatever can be said, thruth or not, the whole country can be brought to a revolution and what happents after, who cares.
This is an indication of how desperate some are, as the day of putin's visit nears, to create as much dust as possible, in hopes of earning their sponsor's pat on the soulder.

The difference between you and him, is that he was in the very location where the russian army bombarded and razed to the ground.
His friends died....
His villagers were deported....
What were you doing, in June 1992 ?

For blind russophiles, not loving and defending every betrayal of russia, is automatically russophobia and hatred....
Slave mentality, when you take us...
We even do not have the right to protest....

At least on such a tragedy as this episode, you should refrain from your dishonest blabla...
This episode is well, perfectly known.
All Artsakhians do know who did what...
All do remember the blond hairs, tall silhouettes of slavons....

It does not fit your mindset, but yet it is cruel reality.
I wish it wasn't.
Today Getashen and Gulistan, to say the least, would be ours...
Dozens of splendid boys would be among us...

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Intentionally Forgotten Tragedy
Igor Muradyan
Thursday, 28 November 2013,


In 1989-1992 the Soviet Union and Russia perpetrated genocidal acts against the people living in Nagorno-Karabakh. The Soviet and Russian troops killed over 1000 Armenians, over 40 villages in different regions of the country were emptied and destroyed, the region of Shahumyan and other tight-knit communities of Armenia were destroyed. Furthermore, thousands of Armenians were persecuted severely.
Since then neither the State Duma, nor the Russian government has anyhow addressed or assessed these events. No single Russian author, whether a writer or a journalist, has published a single line on these tragic events.
Every act or inaction by Russians is clear, and that would have been strange if it were the other way round. How about the attitude of the Armenians to these developments. Neither Yerevan, nor Stepanakert has a single monument to these events. These events are not marked anyhow, not a head of state or parliaments of Armenia and NKR has stated anything about them. Not a single significant piece has been produced though a lot of so-called writers have been speculating the topic of heroism, glorifying scoundrels who, by the way, are responsible for the events in Getashen and Shahumyan.
The official writer Zori Balayan has not published anything about these events. Why? He could have written in his notorious letter to Putin that Gulistan was destroyed and handed to the Azerbaijanis by the Russian troops in June 1992.
Earlier the impression was that of full confidence that the topic would stay under control, and apparently there are some people in charge who exercise control. Over many years these people had two purposes – make Armenians subject to Russia without forgetting about their own selves.
Now that Russia is again introduced as Armenia’s savior, it would be good to remind about these tragic events, intentionally forgotten as part of certain manipulations.
It is not a secret that history has been distorted in Russia’s favor over the past few years. This is a clear liquidation of memory. The Karabakh issue is detested by the Russians because it demonstrated how it is possible to create new borders outlined by their empire. This is as unacceptable and terrifying to them as the presence of NATO troops on the post-Soviet territory would be.
The purpose of the Russians is to prove that the Armenians do not have the right to display political and human will, as well as the right to homeland. They will not succeed, and restoration of sovereignty lost on “September 3” should begin with recovery from amnesia. It would be the right time for the parliaments of Armenia and NKR to consider declaring the 13th of June (1992) as the Day of Russia’s aggression against Armenia and the Armenian people.
- See more at: http://www.lragir.am/index/eng/0/com....EFielDNR.dpuf

Look at this. THIS man joins all the events from 1989 to 1992 as "one historic event" with a single brushstroke, then puts in a number (1000) as to Armenians killed in that time frame, then joins the words soviet-rusian troops making it a "solely russian provocation" then states that neither state duma nor the russian government has anyhow addressed theese events, implying responsibility and a coverup by russia. He sumes up that "every act of russians is clear" (plural words can make it easier to convey that "russians" are enemies) Enough to boil your blood right?
He then states that neither Yerevan nor stepanakert have stated anything about it and have not produced a "single monument" to theese events. So implies that both Armenia's or Artsakh's governments have been part of a conspiracy in cover up for russians in past 21 years since. So both governments have been covering it up for so long right? First he puts the tragic events then focuses the reader in russian guilt then he throws Armenia and Artsakh in there with ease to share the guilt about singular event that nobody else knows, because it was covered up by those mentioned. Are you guys following? Is it fearfull and conspiracyfull enough? Are you angry enough? You should be ready to tear up any russians you see, along with Armenian and Artsakh governments by now.
He then throws in more villains, the whole Armenian intellectuals "not a single so called writer" has produced anything about it. Now even all Armenian intellectuals, including those who were present on the battlefields(his words also apply to battlefield commanders, because they have also recounted those times without mentioning those events as "russian agression"), are enemies. Any of you get shortness of breath yet? Going like this, he could proove to all Armenians that all Armenians are their enemies, you know.
He then gives the name of Zori Balayan. Aha. killed another rabbit with that shot.
So all those years all theese people (writers and intellectuals also) Had two purposes, make Armenians subject to Russia and enrich themselfs(according to him).
If you were a patriot living in Armenia, you would want to jump and emigrate as soon as you can by now, because according to Muradyan, allmost everyone else is a cospirator there. Talk about who and with what feed the emigration.
He then tells us that history has been distorted in russia's favor over the past years. You read it? so the history has been distorted by Armenian, Artsakh governments. By all the intellectuals and veterans. Now you are ready to accept that your memory has been liquidated. He then tries to fill up your memory gaps as to russian's true purpose, that they are trying to prove that you do not have the "right to display human will" and "right to homeland". How horrible they can be? Your so called governments and intellectuals included.
You had a sovereignity and lost it on sptember 3. You see your memory does not even go back as far as before september 3. You have amnesia and should recover from it by reading and believing what Igor Mouradyan and his circle tells ya.
Ah not to forget... Keep remembering that russia commited an agression towards you on 13th june 1992. They are the aggressors not the turks ha (have you heard Igor mention an azeri agression? So don't think about it, OK?).

This is what I call blind russofobia and distotion of facts. This is when some circles think that Armenians are stupid enough, so anything can be said. By fueling dicontent with whatever can be said, thruth or not, the whole country can be brought to a revolution and what happents after, who cares.
This is an indication of how desperate some are, as the day of putin's visit nears, to create as much dust as possible, in hopes of earning their sponsor's pat on the soulder.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

There is no point in arguing with Vrej - his hatred is blind and has devoured his soul. To Artashes and others here it is worthy to point out that Russia acts in its own interest and has every right to do so.The same people who complain about the way it is acting with Armenia would be singing praises if Armenia acted the same way with Russia or any other country. It is this hypocrisy that runs deep in all Armenian forums and spoils most arguments. We expect to get freebies from Russia even after we spat in its face by being the loudest and unrivaled when it came to leaving the soviet union. Yes that was the same union that provided living standards Armenians of Armenia have yet to enjoy since the soviet days and could possibly again see in the new Eurasion union led by you know who. There so much utter bs spewed here by russophobes and it seems to be effective in swaying opinions of many here. Vrej makes it sound like it is the USA that wants to save us and Russia that wants to kill us but as usual he is full of smelly bs. He makes it sound like the USA is willing to stand up to turkey while Russia just wants to appease it. Yeh that is why Russia has recognized the Armenian genocide while USA will not utter the G word. It is utter stupidity that spewed here by the likes of Vrej and Gegeve that seems to resonate with some of you while obvious facts get lost somehow. Where would the Armenians in Syria be todayif it was not for Russian intervention?Well you may have guessed it right if you said dead at the hands of turkish backed religious nuttjobs who happen to be supported by the power that vrej claims wants to save us(USA). It is not easy to get the facts in todays world because the media is owned by the very people who want to screw you but even with that as a given a simple logical analyzes will expose the likes of vrej for the utter bs that they represent and try to spread. So tell us dear mr USA loving vrej-why is uncle sam hiding that carpet gifted to him by armenian orphans of the genocide? You better watch what you write though caus you know who is watching every word you type so make sure to butter up for your dear uncle.

Let me continue your thoughts ...

Boo da bla,
Ba bla bda.
...

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

There is no point in arguing with Vrej - his hatred is blind and has devoured his soul. To Artashes and others here it is worthy to point out that Russia acts in its own interest and has every right to do so.The same people who complain about the way it is acting with Armenia would be singing praises if Armenia acted the same way with Russia or any other country. It is this hypocrisy that runs deep in all Armenian forums and spoils most arguments. We expect to get freebies from Russia even after we spat in its face by being the loudest and unrivaled when it came to leaving the soviet union. Yes that was the same union that provided living standards Armenians of Armenia have yet to enjoy since the soviet days and could possibly again see in the new Eurasion union led by you know who. There so much utter bs spewed here by russophobes and it seems to be effective in swaying opinions of many here. Vrej makes it sound like it is the USA that wants to save us and Russia that wants to kill us but as usual he is full of smelly bs. He makes it sound like the USA is willing to stand up to turkey while Russia just wants to appease it. Yeh that is why Russia has recognized the Armenian genocide while USA will not utter the G word. It is utter stupidity that spewed here by the likes of Vrej and Gegeve that seems to resonate with some of you while obvious facts get lost somehow. Where would the Armenians in Syria be todayif it was not for Russian intervention?Well you may have guessed it right if you said dead at the hands of turkish backed religious nuttjobs who happen to be supported by the power that vrej claims wants to save us(USA). It is not easy to get the facts in todays world because the media is owned by the very people who want to screw you but even with that as a given a simple logical analyzes will expose the likes of vrej for the utter bs that they represent and try to spread. So tell us dear mr USA loving vrej-why is uncle sam hiding that carpet gifted to him by armenian orphans of the genocide? You better watch what you write though caus you know who is watching every word you type so make sure to butter up for your dear uncle.