Iranian-Armenian relations

[HermanGerman]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

This one is much better and more objective:
http://www.rozanehmagazine.com/NoveD...zariINDEX.HTML

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Since Armenia's Independence, Armenia has been a mostly homogeneous state, the natural result of population transfers. It is not really able to incorporate large scale immigration from non-Armenian ethnic groups and remain "Armenia". Armenians don't want to go to Iran and preach anti-Iranian-ism, they just want to maintain an Armenia for Armenians and feel threatened by being too open with foreigners, especially if they regard Armenia as some kind of haven to run away to because things aren't doing so well in their country. The idea is, you're welcome to come to Armenia, if you want to be an Armenian. This rule of thumb applies to Diasporan Armenians too, who, despite their identity of at the least being of Armenian descent, are not always compatible with the mainstream population of Armenia in terms of culture and national attitudes. Armenians tend to identify very strongly with their church, so that is an instant barrier to largescale immigration of Muslims, whether they are Turkic, Iranian, Cherkes, you name it . Armenians tend to identify very strongly with their language too. So if Iranians want to enter Armenia to find a safe haven, all Mos is really saying here is that it would be in our state's interest to require them to overcome these barriers, by complying with them. The modern republic of Armenia has never been a multicultural nation, I don't think it can be unless it wants to forfeit its identity as a nation for Armenians. If this insults you, then what can I say... Armenians have fought Persians before, and lost because they were much more feeble in might. That is what the battle of Avarayr epically portrays. But the moral is that Armenians stubbornly defended their identity. That is also why Armenians were genocided in recent history. That is the price to be Armenian and desire to remain Armenian at all costs... Not easy huh? So please try to understand Mos' xenophobia from this perspective.

good post aper.

[Armanen]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

True. But Iran is the only country that shares a border with Armenia that is adverse to Pan-Turks, and has power to do something about it -- also in Armenia's case, it is also flanked on the East and West by 2 Pan-Turk oriented states. I doubt a 3rd will improve Armenia's condition. Would Russia then go along with a Turkish-Super-State surrounding Armenia? Who knows. Who wants to even take that risk? Prevention is the best cure.

I am not denying the role which Iran has played and continues to play in the war against pan-turanism. I just wanted to point out that Armenia and Iran have allies in this fight and that the issue affects a wider region than just the Trans Caucasus.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I am not denying the role which Iran has played and continues to play in the war against pan-turanism. I just wanted to point out that Armenia and Iran have allies in this fight ....

I know you're not denying Iran's role in the fight against the Turks (either historical or at the present). The point I wanted to clearly convey is that, in my opinion, Iranians exposed to statements, like the ones Mos frequently writes, will change gears and not want to be 'allies with Armenians.'

When judging the truthfulness of my assertion, it is important to look at it through Iranian-eyes (not Armenian eyes) because ultimately Iranians will be offended based on Iranian-sensibilites to disparaging comments against them.

A Simple Reality Check By Way of a 2 Part Test (Not Intended to Insult Anyone):

PART 1: Is it possible that an Iranian will read the comments below? Yes.

no sensible Armenian family would accept a Muslim and you would have a really hard time being accepted in Armenia.

Go pray towards Mecca and shout 'allahu akbar'

PART 2: Is it possible that a single Iranian that reads the above comments, or hears about them through word-of-mouth, will take offense and burn down this Church under the rationale that; 'If the Armenian's disrespect our faith, why should we defend theirs for centuries'?



Answer to PART 2: Yes, I am suggesting that history shows, in every country, negative events have been triggered by statements, like the quotes above. I'm Iranian. I know how some Iranians will view Mos's statements. (I'm just trying to notify you in an abundance of caution). It only takes one person to react negatively and to take some form of vigilante action. Ergo, is it responsible to let Mos continue as he has on this particular thread? Not in my opinion; but I can only give you my advice as a friend. If I didn't care about Armenians, I wouldn't be wasting my breath.

And you can be certain that the Azeris play-up this theme all of the time, with slogans like:

"Why is Muslim Iran, supporting Christian Armenia against Muslim Azerbaijan?"

Mos's statements make it easier for people to shift their attitudes. And all it really takes is for 1 person to be offended and decide to take action for tangible harm to result.

My guess is that you will find it hollow if some rift like this develops and the Iranian authorities say, please try to understand "Mr. Iranian-Church-Burner's" xenophobia from the perspective that he was just defending his people and his faith.
V
V

So please try to understand Mos' xenophobia from this perspective.

Like I said, I understand what Xenophobia is: [Def: "Xenophobia is defined as the irrational hatred or fear of foreigners, strangers or their culture." Oxford Standard English Dictionary,' Oxford Press, 2004.] You don't have to worry about me understanding Mos's xenophobia - you have to worry about some unsophisticated country-folk in Iran that read or hear about these types of statements by Mos, maybe on a flyer that someone prints up and disseminates, and *hope* that such people do not have a visceral reaction to the statements. You should ask yourself whether such a person will understand Mos's point of view or his xenophobia.

I personally don't need convincing about the logic and rationale behind strong Iran/Armenia ties or the dangers of pan-turanism. But letting an unformed kid guide-&-shape a very negative discussion relating to an historical ally is, in my opinion, counter-productive.

[jgk3]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

So you're saying we should just behave better on these public forums so that some crazy Iranian kids don't get ideas.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You still arguing with this kid who does not represent our relations and that couldn’t shut up to save his own life? You got patience my friend.

Hey, next time you post a video like this give a warning man, you should know how much that could hurts inside (delam tang shod).

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I pro-Iranian relation as long as it's in the best interest of Armenia, that's the only country I really care for.

You know what this statement reminds me of.......a Turk has no friend but a Turk.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

These public forums do not represent reality.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You know what this statement reminds me of.......a Turk has no friend but a Turk.

What are you talking about? So it's bad to only care for your country? My only allegiance is to Armenia. Any other country is secondary to me.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

So you're saying we should just behave better on these public forums so that some crazy Iranian kids don't get ideas.

What I wrote above in Post #544 expresses my views - it doesn't need to be elaborated on:

But I will add that, I believe, it is more constructive, for those Armenians that do not know and hold suspicious attitudes towards Iranians, to use the thread to gain critical information, like: (1) Iran has dozens of AG memorials; (2) that the Talysh (Persians) are natural allies of Armenians who live in Azerbaijan and that Armenians could awaken them to help in their cause; (3) that Iran has saved Armenians from several Turkish onslaughts throughout history and provided refuge to Armenians during the AG; (4) that Iran is Armenia's largest trading partner (for the year I checked); (5) that there are many historical Armenian churches in Iran (maybe even more in Iran than Armenia); (6) that Iranians built towns for Armenians to live in as respected and equal citizens; (7) that during the NK war only Iran's borders remained open to Armenia and Iran has not sold any weapons to the Azeris; and (8) fundamentally, that Armenians can, and should, educate themselves about Persian history, as it is inextricably intertwined with their own, and sheds light on some of the challenges they face today.

By George A. Bournoutian, Visiting Professor of Armenian History at Columbia.

“Prior to the third century A.D., Iran had more influence on Armenia's culture than any of its other neighbours [i.e., for thousands of years the Perso-Armeno people were linked]. Intermarriage among the Iranian and Armenian nobility was common. The two peoples shared many religious, political, and linguistic elements and traditions and, at one time, even shared the same dynasty." "The Armenian merchants of Julfa, who had been engaged in international trade for some time, were especially happy with the Iranian capture of Julfa [and the defeat of the invading Turks].” ... "“Persian masons, together with Armenian craftsmen, built the new settlement.” … “Armenians had rights, which were denied other minorities [to account for aspects of their faith, like drinking wine]. They elected their own mayor, or kalantar, rang church bells, had public religious processions, established their own courts, and had no restrictions on clothing or the production of wine. … The Armenian mayor was given one of the shah's royal seals in order to bypass bureaucratic tangles and had jurisdiction over the two dozen Armenian villages around Isfahan." ... “One of the intangible benefits of Armenian economic power in Iran was the transformation of the Armenian self-image. After centuries of conquest by Muslim invaders, Armenians were granted equal and at times even greater privileges than Muslims. This increased prestige extended to the Church as well ...."

Access to this information might be a little easier, were it not for posts telling Iranians to "go to Mecca and shout Allah Akbar" and fielding typical *Israeli-style* absurdities about "Mullahs with 9-year old brides." That same energy might be better spent on fighting the information war against the Turks (who, in case anyone hasn't noticed, are Armenia's mortal enemies). At a minimum, you might consider making a special thread called "Mos's Rants Against Iranians" just so there can exist a different thread where the actual Armenian/Iranian relations are discussed. As it stands, people have to dig through a ton of muck to find the on-topic posts.