Should Turkey compensate-your thoughts?

[Siamanto]

I think the 'Armenian Slang and Idioms' thread could really use this post!!
Anyway, I agree with you... we are not as united as we should be. Eastern Armenians too are categorized into two grops: Hayastansis and Barsgahays!

Totally agree!

Take the genocide events in LA for example... every group and organization had its own agenda, they all went separate directions, and the results were not too impressive. I mean you would think at least for the 90th anniversary they would put their differences behind right? wrong!

Very sad!

[Siamanto]

o0tinerz0o,
I've been trying to stay out of this debate and I will continue to do so; at least, for a while. Nevertheless, I thought that some details should be "clarified???" I sincerely apologize for the - at times - negative and accusatory nature of what follows: I thought that it should be known!

First things first! I will not get into the why and the how; but, I agree that
1- We should aim at reconquering our ancestral Lands. Time will tell how fruitful our attempts will prove to be. Risk of failure should not discourage us.
2- We, unfortunately, have not always been great diplomats and we still lack what one may call "cooperative organization." It may not be as strong as "unity," but would be as operationally efficient as "unity" and may help us achieve our goals. In fact, "unity" - if it means uniformity - is not desirable.
Personally, I believe that we're not as disorganized as we think and we will improve!

Now comes the unpleasant part!
Personally, I would consider what winoman and bell-the-cat have to offer - on the subject - with a grain of salt; in fact, unless you dislike salt, make it few grains! Both have a long tradition of "debating" against the "usefulness" or "feasibility" of views such as yours. I don't don't know what is their agenda, but I won't be surprised if they had one. Furthermore, it is very likely that their "criticism" would have been less disguised had this exchange occurred in a non Armenian Forum. During the last five or six years - i.e. since I'm active on Armenian Forums - I have seen them attack Armenians and Greeks on many *urkish forums with animosity, whenever the issue of TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey's territorial integrity has been questioned.
It is also of notoriety their association with some so-called "open minded" *urks - who claim to be in favor of recognizing the Armenian Genocide; but, turn into a gray wolf whenever the issue of Lands is raised!
Please, keep that in mind! Thanks!

Good Luck!


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk" or "*urkish" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations!

[Siamanto]

Turkey should compensate Armenians if we want to uphold any concept of property rights.

Good point!

[bell-the-cat]

First things first! I will not get into the why and the how; but, I agree that
1- We should aim at reconquering our ancestral Lands. Time will tell how fruitful our attempts will prove to be. Risk of failure should not discourage us.

I'm aiming for a trip to the Moon next weekend. I will not get into the why and the how I'm going to do it. And my total lack of any scientific training will not discourage me.

Now comes the unpleasant part!
Personally, I would consider what winoman and bell-the-cat have to offer - on the subject - with a grain of salt; in fact, unless you dislike salt, make it few grains!

Try to live without salt, and you won't last the week, (and you will also miss out on my Moon expedition next weekend).

[shasa]

So let's get this straight - you are expecting other countries to 1. force Turkey to abandon all of its eastern lands. 2. force most of the current inhabitants out of those lands, 3. pay, or force Turkey to pay, a couple of million Armenians enough money to induce them to abandon wherever they are currently living and move to former eastern Turkey. Be realistic! This is not going to happen, ever!!

As for this "the strength of this race is in its unity" stuff - those sort of words are the sort of things dictators say as an easy way of surpressing any views they disagree with and do not want others to hear. I know that giving racial traits to nations is unPC these days, but it still isn't too wide of the mark to say that the defining characteristic of the Armenian race is its complete lack of unity! And while that charactersitic can have negative aspects, it has many very positive aspects as well, including creativity and individuality - both of which are probably more valuable assets in the modern world than this ala-turka "racial unity" you want Armenia to have.

UN may force Turks to establish a Turkish-Kurdish-Armenian federation at eastern Turkey. (I'm serious) So, current inhabitants will not be forced to expulse and new immigrants (Armenians) settle hte area. This seems the most realistic option and it is also consistent with the history. (Remember that western Armenia was never populated only by Armenians, we had Turksih, Kurdish neighbours since 1000 years.
And winoman, instead of posting pessimistic and arrogant mails, state your idea about the solution, if you have.

[TUR-Friend]

I think Turkey and Armenia should UNITE!

[TUR-Friend]

Guys, I've got to tell you... Turkey will NEVER compensate, never ever. Most of our public thinks that you killed us, not the vise versa. Look, actually, we have absolutely no problem with Armenians, I mean, we'd lived united for such a long time, (and by "we", I mean "the Turkish and Armenian people, as we still do peacefully in some parts of Turkey") the real problem is obviously triggered by the governments. Both governments try to use the issue to collect more votes from more nationalistic voters.

What do you all think?

[TurKOnE]

TUR-Friend I do agree you ..

I am turkish and living in a Turkish city. (i am not a koylu as someone in this forum had insulted me of)

We (Turks) never had any trouble with armenians. they accuse us of occupying their land about 1000 years ago and so they have started to take revenge(in 1915 omg)..

I wanna ask with no bad intention .. if we took your land a thousand years ago why did you wait till 1915(that makes a 900 and more year difference) and till now to talk.

in ottoman empire duration why noone came up and say we want our lands back?(in 900 year period) .. let me answer. they didnt because they didnt have any problem with ottomans and easily get on well thats why.

[TUR-Friend]

It's the RUSSIANS who USE the ARMENIANS and stir up the conflict to control that particular geographical zone, and to have an extra card in the hand against us. Armenia is basically "protected" by Russian troops, they are often as close to the Turkish border as a few meters.

I mean, I don't understand my Armenian friends here. Don't they see what is going on?

Okay, let's say Russia keeps them secure... but from whom? Who's going to attack Armenia? I don't think that Turkey would even fire a single bullet towards Armenian airspace as long as Russian/Armenian forces try to occupy another city in Azerbaycan or Nahcivan. And I doubt that Armenian government is actively seeking to achieve such objectives, at least militarily.

So what happens to Armenia?

They get poorer and poorer because they can not do trade with Turkey and Azerbaycan! All they can work with are Russia, Georgia, and Iran. That's a major loss of money! It's just redicilous. Of course, I'm not saying that the current situation doesn't affect Turkey, it does, but not as much as it affects Armenia. Just compare the per capita GDPs, and the economy growth rates.

I have no personal problems with Armenians, actually a very close family-friend of ours is an Armenian Turkish. I also know that the Turkish nation has absolutely no anger, or rage, or hate toward the Armenian people, we consider them as friends.

It's just Russia's mess up! They're trying to keep the region hot, so that they can keep Armenians dependent, and damage Turkey as much as possible.

It's our PEOPLES who are SUFFERING. We are friends, and we sure can get along!

[nairi]

The freakshow continues.