Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Well the problem is still the Armenian government's decision regardless.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Is not the armenian government composed of caucasion armenians? Plus didnt davo just say his friends had trouble with them?

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I wish you were right but it is not so and the experience of your friends proves just that. The diasporans have lived apart from their bretheren in Armenia for so long that the two have grown apart. This is what i have been saying is what needs to be adressed before anything else. I suggested a solution to, to increase interaction by visiting our homeland often, making personal connections.... i have been over all this before sigh.

We've been close with the Caucasian Armenians here (at least in major states) plenty.The problem we have is, exactly with the Armenian government decision. Don't convolute the issue please.

[Catharsis]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

O there is something taking place alright but it is exactly the opposit of what you think it is. See your thinking Serj and the hayastantsis are selling out our ancestral rights but in reality Armenia is being forced into a agreement it cannot refuse and one that is not all bad for it either. The realy bad part is that this is going to cause a rift between the diaspora and Armenia all because the diasporans want to live in their virtual world of 100 yearold dead documents instead of participating in the only nation which is our only hope for a national future. You refuse to give up what was lost long ago at the expence of what could be and that is just god dam stupid!

Diasporans have participated with everything they have, including billions and billions of investments and cadres. The major reason behind not full-scale participation is the environment in Armenia which is not friendly to ANY outside participation, including that of our own kit and kin. I (sadly) agree when US and others for their own interests point out the high corruption levels that are prevalent throughout Armenia. Not to mention concepts like individual rights and freedoms, are all but curtailed. Any Armenian, one living in Armenia and repatriating Diasporan should feel that Armenia at least gives them a chance to survive on their own, they will not complain and they will strive towards this end, but even this meager chance of free enterprise and other freedoms is highly curtailed and not afforded to many.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Haykakan, perhaps the people of Armenia aren't as receptive as those in the diaspora. For instance, some of my friends who went there consider that they've been treated almost as օտար.

As much as you fantasize at the idea, there is no rift between diaspora and Armenia in regards to the protocols, the rift is actually between the diaspora and the current government.

I wish you were right but it is not so and the experience of your friends proves just that. The diasporans have lived apart from their bretheren in Armenia for so long that the two have grown apart. This is what i have been saying is what needs to be adressed before anything else. I suggested a solution to, to increase interaction by visiting our homeland often, making personal connections.... i have been over all this before sigh.

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

See there you go making up excuses for why not when you should be thinking of ways of how to. This rift between the diaspora and Armenia is exactly whats killing us and the political parties of neither one are helping instead they add fuel to the fire to divide our nation further. How come i can live among the diasporans, learn the dialect, make friends but you cannot see yourself doing the same in the only hayrenik we have?

There you go , accusing us, just like a good little lackey ( Turkish ulak).

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

No, the Treaty of Lausanne actually 'fixed' pretty much the borders of 'Republic of Turkey' on post-Ottoman space. The hearings that took place on December 12, 13 and 14 of 1922 (and the one on July 7, 1923) specifically dealt with the Armenian Question. Ismet Pasha and Riza Nuri objected to handing over occupied parts of Western Armenia to its rightful owner - the Armenian Republic. Just the fact that the Turks were able to "drop" the Armenian Question (like the FACT of the genocide is being questioned now through the so-called 'inquiry commission') along with fixing their borders on territories that were awarded to Armenia and Greece was a major diplomatic victory for Turkey.

As far as I know, the Treaty of Lausanne does not mention the word "Armenia" or "Soviet Armenia", and there is no section of the treaty which defines Turkey's eastern border, while it defines Turkey's border with all its other neighbors. Look at the treaty for yourself, it contains no information on the Turkish-Armenian border, and it does not say anything about terminating the Wilson Arbitration or the Treaty of Sevres.

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Haykakan, perhaps the people of Armenia aren't as receptive as those in the diaspora. For instance, some of my friends who went there consider that they've been treated almost as օտար.

As much as you fantasize at the idea, there is no rift between diaspora and Armenia in regards to the protocols, the rift is actually between the diaspora and the current government.

[Catharsis]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Turkish politicians like to talk a lot of sh*t. Even if we reaffirm Lausanne, so what? Nowhere in the Treaty of Lausanne does it define the Turkish-Armenian border. Its a worthless treaty in regards to western Armenia. All it does is recognize Turkey as a sovereign nation.

Signing Kars might be a different story.

No, the Treaty of Lausanne actually 'fixed' pretty much the borders of 'Republic of Turkey' on post-Ottoman space. The hearings that took place on December 12, 13 and 14 of 1922 (and the one on July 7, 1923) specifically dealt with the Armenian Question. Ismet Pasha and Riza Nuri objected to handing over occupied parts of Western Armenia to its rightful owner - the Armenian Republic. Just the fact that the Turks were able to "drop" the Armenian Question (like the FACT of the genocide is being questioned now through the so-called 'inquiry commission') along with fixing their borders on territories that were awarded to Armenia and Greece was a major diplomatic victory for Turkey.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

No thanks, if its full of people like you neo-judeo-capitalist, a nation of clerks who take on the side (strangely, just like some Turks), besides its too small for all of us; and, the people don't speak the general Armenian dialect.
I'll take my chances in the mountains of Varto !

See there you go making up excuses for why not when you should be thinking of ways of how to. This rift between the diaspora and Armenia is exactly whats killing us and the political parties of neither one are helping instead they add fuel to the fire to divide our nation further. How come i can live among the diasporans, learn the dialect, make friends but you cannot see yourself doing the same in the only hayrenik we have?