Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

‘If the People Oppose it, What Right do We have to Sign,’
Says Markarian


YEREVAN (ARF Press Office)—When the people express their firm opposition to the protocols then how dare the leadership sign them? This question was posed Thursday by Armenian Revolutionary Federation Bureau chairman Hrant Markarian at a conference addressing the Armenia-Turkey protocols and relations between the two countries.

Markarian sent a terse warning to those who are opting to divide—create a schism—between Armenia and the Diaspora.

“The Diaspora is the continuation of our homeland—they are us! We cannot, even in our minds, fathom dividing our nation,” said Markarian, who was referring to the vocal opposition expressed by the Diaspora during President Serzh Sarkisian’s so-called “pan-Armenian tour,” and the manner in which the president has decided to ignore the concerns expressed during his visits to Paris, New York, Los Angeles, Beirut and Rostov-on-Don.

Markarian went on to illustrate that from the onset it was clear that the protocol-mandated public discussion period was nothing more than a formality, since it was announced that there was no room to amend the documents. There was fierce reaction to the government’s “There’s no discussion, we are going to sign,” formulation.

“The Genocide issue is an open wound. Do not attempt to touch that nerve, because the reaction will be unpredictable,” said Markarian.

The ARF leader pledged that while his party is going to fight against the protocols and the entire process, nevertheless, it is willing to work with the authorities to find a way out. However, he said, if the appropriate response is not given by the authorities “We will go to the end—we will seek regime change.”

He explained: “Regime change is not self-serving and we are not seeking to change the bad with worse. It is finally time that our people knowledgably and in an organized manner, bring such a regime to power, which it will not want to change immediately,” explained Markarian.

“We are advocating for the same thing everywhere: The ARF is opposed to these protocols. We are stating this based on our experience and our struggle, seeing clear and present dangers. Those who view the ARF as one of 60 parties working in Armenia are very mistaken,” said Markarian.

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Now thats what I call blowing smoke under someones arse.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I do not see why Turkey would emphasise this much on accepting its territorial integrity through past treaties if our case for lost lands was as hopeless as some people claim they are. The Turk is not stupid, it has engaged in clever diplomacy for 600 years while we have succumbed time and time again to various empires.

Succuming to different empires is the natural result of our geography not poor decision making, my god i have been over this too already. Do you honestly think that the turcks or anyone else for that matter is smarter then the armenians? Do you honestly think we were anywhere near getting western armenia back by using some documents? You guys gotta start giving armenians a bit more credit then this, we are smarter, shrewder and more intellectually capable then most other races and have proved this over and over again, we are a small nation with few people yet we are ranked third world wide in chess, our merchants are among the richest and most successsful on earth, our scientist made the migs, mri...Quit selling yourself short already, Armenias leaders are not dumb and they are not sellouts either. They live in the country and must live with the results of their decisions unlike the diaspora.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I do not see why Turkey would emphasise this much on accepting its territorial integrity through past treaties if our case for lost lands was as hopeless as some people claim they are. The Turk is not stupid, it has engaged in clever diplomacy for 600 years while we have succumbed time and time again to various empires.

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

See your thinking Serj and the hayastantsis

It's not Serge and the hayastantsis, it's Serge and his government. Hayastantsis aren't all supportive of the protocols, thankfully...

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

O there is something taking place alright but it is exactly the opposit of what you think it is. See your thinking Serj and the hayastantsis are selling out our ancestral rights but in reality Armenia is being forced into a agreement it cannot refuse and one that is not all bad for it either. The realy bad part is that this is going to cause a rift between the diaspora and Armenia all because the diasporans want to live in their virtual world of 100 yearold dead documents instead of participating in the only nation which is our only hope for a national future. You refuse to give up what was lost long ago at the expence of what could be and that is just god dam stupid!

Hayk, but you realize you are parroting exactly what the Turks have been saying for the past 3 years.If this is what Sarkissian agrees with , maybe we're not being forced by the Russians only the bribing Turks.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Likewise the above posts are for those who are not familiar with what is going on. I have not followed what you have argued and hence similarly, as I said, my posts are not for "your types" as you put it, but for those Armenians who want to better understand for themselves what is taking place at this historic juncture in Armenian history.

O there is something taking place alright but it is exactly the opposit of what you think it is. See your thinking Serj and the hayastantsis are selling out our ancestral rights but in reality Armenia is being forced into a agreement it cannot refuse and one that is not all bad for it either. The realy bad part is that this is going to cause a rift between the diaspora and Armenia all because the diasporans want to live in their virtual world of 100 yearold dead documents instead of participating in the only nation which is our only hope for a national future. You refuse to give up what was lost long ago at the expence of what could be and that is just god dam stupid!

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

ANKARA (Hurriyet)—The Armenia-Turkey protocols will reaffirm Turkey’s borders with Armenia as outlined by the Lausanne Treaty of 1923, said Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu during a press conference Thursday.

Turkish politicians like to talk a lot of sh*t. Even if we reaffirm Lausanne, so what? Nowhere in the Treaty of Lausanne does it define the Turkish-Armenian border. Its a worthless treaty in regards to western Armenia. All it does is recognize Turkey as a sovereign nation.

Signing Kars might be a different story.

[Catharsis]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I have been arguing with your types all week and all the answers to your questions and responces to your posts are in my previous posts, if you want go look at them, if you dont then i could'tcare less. There is nothing in your posts that are new or provide a new percpective so the answers already posted will suffice.

Likewise the above posts are for those who are not familiar with what is going on. I have not followed what you have argued and hence similarly, as I said, my posts are not for "your types" as you put it, but for those Armenians who want to better understand for themselves what is taking place at this historic juncture in Armenian history.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

With winning the hearts, the minds and the solidarity and devotion of the Armenian people worldwide.



Yes, because of geopolitical shifts between US and Russia, the former believes this will also be of benefit in terms of energy supplies and routes.



I am not quite clear what you mean here? What have I ignored? I have been following this process since at least 2001, when the State Department and CFR put together the 'Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission.' Same brokers back then, however, as former Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian noted, it was flatly rejected by the Armenian government because it was clearly in favor of the Turks. The terms in the protocols that we have now are even worst as they pose a clear and present danger to the very statehood of Armenia.



Therein lies your ignorance, because 'wishing' is not how international laws, treaties and policies are made. The international system operates by treaties and laws, once again read what the Turks are saying and what they are after through these protocols.



He has never been on the frontline and has never fired a single shot. How he ended up in the NKR Defense Committee, you can read in the memoires of many freedom fighters who actually did fight on the frontlines and many giving their lives, including many heroic commanders who were killed as a 'challenge' to this very so-called 'Defense Committee.' I have zero respect for someone who likes to gamble, and no I don't mean his gambling in Monte Carlo, but his gambling with the future of the Armenian people.




Incorrect, you need both. We won in Artsakh, but we need a treaty a legal binding international document [like what the Turks are doing now with the protocols] in order to secure and complete that victory on the diplomatic and international arena.



Russia perhaps (one can argue about this one also in terms of long term). However, Armenia gives up its most vital and important national security asset which believe it or not is the Armenian Cause. Armenians give up the fight by signing a legal, internationally binding document that states that Armenians have no claims towards Republic of Turkey. This includes property and land worth trillions of dollars...not to mention that they are in fact to virtually every single Armenian priceless...since this land is our historic and sacred homeland that contains the relics of our ancestors, even as ruins they are, as I said priceless, like Ararat, Ani or Van.



Turkish leaders like Erdogan and Gul are now openly boasting about bringing back the 'glories' of the Ottoman Empire. They are publishing maps for their school children which does not include even one single square kilometer of Armenia...it is all (including the few percent we have left over of historic Armenia) is Turkey.

http://news.am/en/news/5484.html

Read the statements of the Turkic presidents during the meeting that took place in Nakhichevan, they said that they will do their utmost to have a land link that connects all Turkic nations together.

I have been arguing with your types all week and all the answers to your questions and responces to your posts are in my previous posts, if you want go look at them, if you dont then i could'tcare less. There is nothing in your posts that are new or provide a new percpective so the answers already posted will suffice.