Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Karo, unfortunately Turkey is the more dominant economy between us two (especially if Turkey's accession to the EU becomes a reality) so if anybody is going to take over anyone's businesses it's going to be Turkey. Armenia is effectively going to fall under Turkish influence because of this one signature by our genius leaders. Plus, considering the position of 90% of the Armenian diaspora about the protocols do you really think that anyone would be interested in putting their money in Turkey? If Western Armenia already is supposed to belong to us, why would we start from scratch anyway?



This is especially a problem in Armenia.

Anyway Haykakan, about the benefits to Armenia, what do you want me to say... The benefits are not worth the concessions we are making through these protocols! What is better? Finding a job where you make 50$ per week? Or waiting a little and getting a million dollars per year? It's the concession that we are making.

You cannot concede what you do not have! Armenia gives up nothing it has in this deal! You are getting potentially huge benefits and giving up absolutely nothing you possess, like how many times i gotta point this out already. Its funny how when Armenia was soviet the diasporans where saying its a communist country so... now that it is more capitolistic then the USA they are saying its too capitolistic so..... This hypocracy drives me nutts and please look for answers to the border opening issues in my previous posts, Davo i have more then answered every question you asked me very competely and effectively, if you still continue to disagree with me then atleast give me a rational reason.

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Karo, unfortunately Turkey is the more dominant economy between us two (especially if Turkey's accession to the EU becomes a reality) so if anybody is going to take over anyone's businesses it's going to be Turkey. Armenia is effectively going to fall under Turkish influence because of this one signature by our genius leaders. Plus, considering the position of 90% of the Armenian diaspora about the protocols do you really think that anyone would be interested in putting their money in Turkey? If Western Armenia already is supposed to belong to us, why would we start from scratch anyway?

The % of people who will profit the most is no different then in any other capitolistic country.

This is especially a problem in Armenia.

Anyway Haykakan, about the benefits to Armenia, what do you want me to say... The benefits are not worth the concessions we are making through these protocols! What is better? Finding a job where you make 50$ per week? Or waiting a little and getting a million dollars per year? It's the concession that we are making.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

And you at 19 know all about death and starvation……….kid, you know nothing about me and what I have done and seen in my life.

It is OK Karo jan, just don’t alienate and give up so quick on the Diaspora Armenians. You be surprised what they can do.


Haykakan, my answer to you and many Armenians will not be acceptable. All I can say is that for me it is better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool. Remember, I said for me, not Hayastan.

I've seen many horrible things as a child in the 90's in Hayastan things I don't wish our people to suffer again. But that's not the point I'm trying to make, we've got an opportunity here to attack the turks and xxxx them up so bad that it will be very hard to recover. First now we have an opportunity to take over their businesses and use the profit to build up our country and when we feel like it destroy those businesses. We must be ready to react on what is going on in the world and addaped as soon as we can. There is a lot of money in the diaspora and it can be used to help Armenia and i really mean help it by attacking and taking control over its enemy. You want our lands back? Now are you ready to work for it?

@Lucin: Thanks for the compliments

[Parskahay]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

its just turks
eastern part of armenia didnt suffered the things western part suffered its the difference of turks and other countrys who take control of armenia the others just add our country to their own and threat us like their own citizens but turks did genocide and many other sick things
i dont count mongols casue they are nothing and dont worth to talk

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I fear you are right. The "you know we have quite many sell-out ignorant, totally indifferent idiots in the Homeland just like in the Diaspora" was icing on the cake.

You guys can take comfort in the fact that during all those years of oppressive turckish,arab,persian,russian rule we armenians are still we the armenians. It is up to you to keep your armenian heritage and it is your decision to teach it to your childeren. Our armenian culture will continue should we choose to let it and nothing else can change that.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

With borders opened, our economy may prosper and more and more people will choose to stay in the country. However, in my opinion once borders opened we'd have to face many big and small issues on a social level. I imagine quite many intermarriages (you know we have quite many sell-out ignorant, totally indifferent idiots in the Homeland just like in the Diaspora) and for a nation as small and vulnerable as Armenia this could be a threat. I also fear that with developing relations with Turkey our future generations (in the Homeland) may gradually lose the vigilance in facing with the Turk and the psychological readiness maintained till this day to restitute our Western Armenian lands would fade away throughout time and the "let's get all together, save mother earth" attitude would replace it. I hope I'm wrong.

I fear you are right. The "you know we have quite many sell-out ignorant, totally indifferent idiots in the Homeland just like in the Diaspora" was icing on the cake.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Haykakan, you mention the diasporans "lavish weddings" with Arabic music and so on, yet you forget to mention the lavish lives that the 0.01% live in Armenia at the expense of the 99.99%. This is something that has to be addressed as well.

This brings me to another point. The opening of Turkish-Armenian relations will not really profit the 99.99%, it might actually worsen their situation. The benefits of development in Armenia would remain in the hands of the very few. For instance, how would the Armenian farmer be able to compete against the cheaper Turkish goods? Moreover, the opening of the border will profit the Russians and not the marginalized majority of Armenians if we suppose that what you say about Russians in Armenia is true...

The % of people who will profit the most is no different then in any other capitolistic country. It is the product of the capitolist system which i dont like but... As for infustructure what you need to know is that although russia has majority stakes it does not own them outright with the other owner being the armenian government thus Armenia also profits, more importantly infastructure takes a lot of labor to build and maintain thus this will mean lots of decent paying jobs Armenia badly needs more of, plus it is we the armenian people who will be using all the benefits infustructure provides. As for competition in a open market, i dont just think armenians will do well, i know they will! We are one of the most accomplished traders ever in history and given the oppertunity, especially without obsticals we will kick ass like never before. Davo you can keep saying you disagree with me if you like but you gotta admit man your kinda running out of excuses.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

And you at 19 know all about death and starvation……….kid, you know nothing about me and what I have done and seen in my life.

Though I agree with you here but age is irrelevant. He is a mature wise young man. A majority of his thoughts expressed here say that.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I would also like to share my opinion on the latest developpments, this is what I discussed with a friend a while ago.

It's been really hard for me to give a judgment on these so-called protocols. I have had mixed feelings. Overall, our politicians have made a progress on the political ground; I see signs of smartness and some shrewd moves though they are still embryonic and not developed enough. Who could believe that Turkey would kind of 'give up' on the Karabakh issue, for now? An issue that has been on their agenda for years and have had a quite firm stance on it? On the other hand, in return, Turkey is naturally enforcing two other conditions, not so pleasant for us, one being the historical commission, the other the recognition of the current borders. Well, the first one is clear that Turks are not going to gain much from it, at least when it comes to dealing with us Armenians. It may just hinder for a while the Genocide recognition in a number of countries but will eventually have the fate of that so-called 'TARC'. The second one regarding recognizing the current borders, is my major concern for the reasons you already know and have mentioned here. But overall, the protocols between a huge, powerful country today; Turkey and Armenia a small and comparatively weak nation seems to be like a tit for tat agreement, in my view.

With borders opened, our economy may prosper and more and more people will choose to stay in the country. However, in my opinion once borders opened we'd have to face many big and small issues on a social level. I imagine quite many intermarriages (you know we have quite many sell-out ignorant, totally indifferent idiots in the Homeland just like in the Diaspora) and for a nation as small and vulnerable as Armenia this could be a threat. I also fear that with developing relations with Turkey our future generations (in the Homeland) may gradually lose the vigilance in facing with the Turk and the psychological readiness maintained till this day to restitute our Western Armenian lands would fade away throughout time and the "let's get all together, save mother earth" attitude would replace it. I hope I'm wrong.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Some nice art on the Protocols and Madrid principles

Fed jan, some arts that justifies the black day protocols.