Elections in Armenia

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Once this new railroad is built, the blockade issue will go away. In addition the military support from other nations will only increase as there is a lot of money at stake. Imagine Armenian GDP growing by 300% in a short timeframe just from having the free flow of goods. This is exactly what the West does not want, they want to put the pressure on our leaders so they can get their own leaders and oligarchs in place.

throwing pearls in front of swine

Where will the profits of this new Western supermarket go? Replace an Armenian owner with an odar and call it progress...LOL Now they are in the supermarket business as if the people of Armenia were in the streets demanding more supermarkets!

These New Liberals have nothing but holes in their ideas, a simply inability to see through the issues at hand.

[Hakob]

Re: Elections in Armenia

We have clearly defined borders.

We have custom controls and personnel controlling it, not to forget that they have eyes.

We have also Government/Ministries who run the countries' affairs to its peoples advantage.

NOW

To say �how to regulate trade that does not exist� is misrepresentation.
These imports are not smuggled but openly enter the country.

If these imports were ( selectively ) not allowed into the country nobody would be able to complain....... since this trade does not exist !!!
It would be farcical for Turkey to complain about it.

.

Theese imports are not coming from turkey. You cannot selectively forbid importing goods which are necessary for population. We don't have routes for chineese or european or any other imports. The business in Armenia naturally conducts the way all businesses do.
If you selectively block imports from any one of only 2 trading neighbors you put your internal market and consumers into shocks.
The only loosers will be not turks but your own people.
I still have a valid point. The only time you can have any influence on a competitor is to directly import and regulate it with them. If you allow importation from turkey then georgian and Iranian longer routes which are harder to limit, dry out for turkish goods. Then it is easier to restrict or regulate. Even with georgian or Iranian routes for same product.

[Eddo211]

Re: Elections in Armenia

I totally disagree.

As a negotiating tactic you never start to renegotiate a “universally” accepted fact.
The minute you start that you have lost the battle.

As an extreme example the minute you start ( or allow ) a debate that “you are not a fool” you are in deep trouble.
You would be tied in knots, you would not know what hit you.
Remember you are negotiating with your enemies who in turn have their own vested interest.

Well said.

Maybe some forget the bottom line of Turkish demands to open its border to Armenia:

-Give up Artsakh to Azeri Turks
-Forget about Genocide
-Recognize current borders as legal and give up any ideas of Western Armenia

Armenian President played his cards well and made a fool out of Erdogan.

[Serjik]

Re: Elections in Armenia

@ Hakob

I agree with your words. The best thing to do is to open the Turkish border and regulate Turkish trade directly instead of the dealing with Georgian middlemen. In the end of the day we wont be having this silly conversation if Armenia joins the eurasian union. Armenias future is with Russia and the eurasian union.

You guys heard Paruyrs assassins got caught and non of them looks Russian imperialist LOL!

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Wounded Armenian presidential candidate Paruyr Hayrikian has changed his mind, yet again, about asking for a delay in Armenia's February 18 presidential vote. After personally filing a request on February 10 with Armenia's Constitutional Court to postpone the vote by two weeks, he about-faced on February 11, when the Court was expected to discuss the appeal, and withdrew his petition.

How many times is this guy going to cancel then go ahead and then cancel the delay? How much more is this idiot going to milk this?

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/66536

[Hakob]

Re: Elections in Armenia

@ Hakob

I agree with your words. The best thing to do is to open the Turkish border and regulate Turkish trade directly instead of the dealing with Georgian middlemen. In the end of the day we wont be having this silly conversation if Armenia joins the eurasian union. Armenias future is with Russia and the eurasian union.

You guys heard Paruyrs assassins got caught and non of them looks Russian imperialist LOL!

Regards to Armenia's foreign policy. I think that in the past 4-5 years our government has maintained very strong and balanced policy. Good relations with Russia, Europe, Iran and US at the same time, lets accept is excellent for us for today's situation.
About candidates. I like Bagratian and think this guy knows economy. But neither him or other candidates against Sarkissian, have not spoken any smart ideas about foreign policies yet. That's troublesome.

[Hakob]

Re: Elections in Armenia

How many times is this guy going to cancel then go ahead and then cancel the delay? How much more is this idiot going to milk this?

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/66536

I love his patriotizm. When he was exiled to US, I met him and became a supporter. But this conduct puts doubt in his ability to govern a country. Don't you think so?

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Well the economic possibilities regarding the border opening have been discussed to great lengths already-hell i even posted a paper i wrote about it in this forum. It is true that Turky is our enemy but enemys trade non the less. There are ways to protect yourself from malitious economic intents. There is a great deal of benefit derived from opening the border in economic terms by both sides but particularly by Armenia. The question of opening the border is not a economic question (economicaly there is no question that it is a good thing) but there are many ethical issues between the two countries which are far from being resolved. The warnings of the domestic market being flooded by turkish goods can only come from clueless foreigners who have yet to set foot in Armenia. Had these people actually been to Armenia they would realize that it is already flooded with turkish goods. As for the current president-i very much doubt anyone could have done a better job then he has. I was terrified when he started playing both sides instead of sticking to mother russia but he proved to be a master tactition who outwitted all the other leaders. Serj has derived benefits from both the west and the east while strengthening Armenias position. He proved that he was much smarter then our dim whitted diaspora by accepting the protocals then watching turky fall flat on its face in not following through on them. He has managed to keep good relations with the west while opening up opportunities with Iran without pissing off Russia all this while making both of our turkish neighbors look like the bafoons they truely are. This guy is brilliant and we are lucky to have him as president. Anyone who can manage to grow a country under the circumstances Armenia faces deserves a great deal of credit but this guy has done far more then that. There is no better candidate for armenians then Serj and if he can do half the things he managed to do in his first term then Armenia will be a much better place for armenians. The things that people always complain about (oligarchs, corruption, hemmorhoids...) have nothing to do with him nor his government-they are the byproducts of the capitalist market system. He plays with these forces as any leader would have to and has made some good progress on the domestic front. Just compare driving in Armenia before and after Serj and you will know what i am talking about. The main obstical i see in Armenias way is another war (local or regional). Besides the security threat that war posses it also puts a severe strain on all resources and can hold society from progression not only for its duration but also during the recovery period. The statusquo may not be ideal but it is fine because Armenia is still developing - throw in a big war and no one really knows what will happen. Armenians (especialy in diaspora) need to understand that Armenia is not a true independent state. The fact that we need Russia to guerantee our security vs Turky means that we are not a sovereign state and cannot exist independently. People have called me all types of names for pointing out the obvious but we armenians seem to look at the world through some strange glasses. It seems these glasses distort reality and attribute great powers to a tiney country which does not have them.These same glasses blind our people (especialy the diasporans) of everything other then the genocide issue. These glasses seem to dismiss the real threats that the tiney country and its worn down people face. We armenians need to look at the world the way it is instead of our own idealized version of it. One of the many dangers facing Armenia is the disconnect with its diaspora. While Armenia can do more then it has to foster understanding and good relations with armenians abroad, it is the diasporans who should be taking the lead given the fact that we have far more resources. The problem is that diasporans like to worry about themselves and disregard the important issues facing Armenia. They disregard it because they do not have a connection to it. Many have been all over the world yet have not set foot in Hayastan yet. It is the building of these connections between the diaspora and Armenia which i try to emphasize because in the long run one cannot exist without the other. The diaspora will not exist forever without a Armenia-even with a Armenia it is morphing into something which struggles with its own past and how to relate this past to its present and future. Unlike many here i am not a nationalist - I love my people and my country but being a nationalist means being a racist zealot today and i will never be that. I do believe in nation building and this is what all armenians should be working towards. Instead of waisting money on foreign polititions the diaspora needs to be building a homeland that it will want to call home one day. This is not a unreasonable goal and much of the work has already been done by the people of Armenia. Bringing the diaspora close to Armenia and integrating the two should be the goal of all armenians. We as a people have no future without Armenia and Armenia has no future without us the people. It is time to buy that ticket and book a hotel in Yerevan or Stepanakert or Gyumrior.. It is time to spend time and money in Hayastan and mingle/bond with its people. It is time for the diaspora to look at Armenia not as its past but as its future!

[londontsi]

Re: Elections in Armenia

The question of opening the border is not a economic question (economicaly there is no question that it is a good thing) but there are many ethical issues between the two countries which are far from being resolved.

Would you care to define those "ethical" issues.

[Hakob]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Well the economic possibilities regarding the border opening have been discussed to great lengths already-hell i even posted a paper i wrote about it in this forum. It is true that Turky is our enemy but enemys trade non the less. There are ways to protect yourself from malitious economic intents. There is a great deal of benefit derived from opening the border in economic terms by both sides but particularly by Armenia. The question of opening the border is not a economic question (economicaly there is no question that it is a good thing) but there are many ethical issues between the two countries which are far from being resolved. The warnings of the domestic market being flooded by turkish goods can only come from clueless foreigners who have yet to set foot in Armenia. Had these people actually been to Armenia they would realize that it is already flooded with turkish goods. As for the current president-i very much doubt anyone could have done a better job then he has. I was terrified when he started playing both sides instead of sticking to mother russia but he proved to be a master tactition who outwitted all the other leaders. Serj has derived benefits from both the west and the east while strengthening Armenias position. He proved that he was much smarter then our dim whitted diaspora by accepting the protocals then watching turky fall flat on its face in not following through on them. He has managed to keep good relations with the west while opening up opportunities with Iran without pissing off Russia all this while making both of our turkish neighbors look like the bafoons they truely are. This guy is brilliant and we are lucky to have him as president. Anyone who can manage to grow a country under the circumstances Armenia faces deserves a great deal of credit but this guy has done far more then that. There is no better candidate for armenians then Serj and if he can do half the things he managed to do in his first term then Armenia will be a much better place for armenians. The things that people always complain about (oligarchs, corruption, hemmorhoids...) have nothing to do with him nor his government-they are the byproducts of the capitalist market system. He plays with these forces as any leader would have to and has made some good progress on the domestic front. Just compare driving in Armenia before and after Serj and you will know what i am talking about. The main obstical i see in Armenias way is another war (local or regional). Besides the security threat that war posses it also puts a severe strain on all resources and can hold society from progression not only for its duration but also during the recovery period. The statusquo may not be ideal but it is fine because Armenia is still developing - throw in a big war and no one really knows what will happen. Armenians (especialy in diaspora) need to understand that Armenia is not a true independent state. The fact that we need Russia to guerantee our security vs Turky means that we are not a sovereign state and cannot exist independently. People have called me all types of names for pointing out the obvious but we armenians seem to look at the world through some strange glasses. It seems these glasses distort reality and attribute great powers to a tiney country which does not have them.These same glasses blind our people (especialy the diasporans) of everything other then the genocide issue. These glasses seem to dismiss the real threats that the tiney country and its worn down people face. We armenians need to look at the world the way it is instead of our own idealized version of it. One of the many dangers facing Armenia is the disconnect with its diaspora. While Armenia can do more then it has to foster understanding and good relations with armenians abroad, it is the diasporans who should be taking the lead given the fact that we have far more resources. The problem is that diasporans like to worry about themselves and disregard the important issues facing Armenia. They disregard it because they do not have a connection to it. Many have been all over the world yet have not set foot in Hayastan yet. It is the building of these connections between the diaspora and Armenia which i try to emphasize because in the long run one cannot exist without the other. The diaspora will not exist forever without a Armenia-even with a Armenia it is morphing into something which struggles with its own past and how to relate this past to its present and future. Unlike many here i am not a nationalist - I love my people and my country but being a nationalist means being a racist zealot today and i will never be that. I do believe in nation building and this is what all armenians should be working towards. Instead of waisting money on foreign polititions the diaspora needs to be building a homeland that it will want to call home one day. This is not a unreasonable goal and much of the work has already been done by the people of Armenia. Bringing the diaspora close to Armenia and integrating the two should be the goal of all armenians. We as a people have no future without Armenia and Armenia has no future without us the people. It is time to buy that ticket and book a hotel in Yerevan or Stepanakert or Gyumrior.. It is time to spend time and money in Hayastan and mingle/bond with its people. It is time for the diaspora to look at Armenia not as its past but as its future!

I agree with your assesment of Serj Sargsian's Presidency.