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Fair reply
Fair reply Eti, and its nice that everyone can discuss this without any argumentum ad hominem or personal attacks, lets get into this though :
I can understand that it is hard to convert a country from a religious monarchy to a secular democracy (although democracy here should be used with hyphens), but the problem is that many countries have done just that, without any manner of bloodshed toward foreign people (in this case the Republic of Armenia), which argue if you want was an illegal attack on Armenian soil merely to take lands because Kemal was not happy with the Treaty of Sevres this also removed the promise of a Kurdish homeland.
Now lets just for two seconds say that this did not happen, that Turkey immediately admitted to the Armenian genocide, never invaded Armenia and never oppressed Kurds, do you think there would be some of the conflicts Turkey faces today as well. For one thing, the Turkish government would not need to whine about the PKK, because they would have no reason to fight guerilla wars as they would have their Kurdistan, we wouldn't be debating Western Armenia in this context and if the Genocide was recognised, there would be greater love between Turkey and Armenia.
I will agree converting a religious monarchy (whether Christian, Hindu or Muslim) is hard, I'm not saying the other countries who did the same were perfect, they had violence as well, but Kemal had no reason to attack the Country of Armenia.
As to the Arabs, you know as well as I do that during the Ottoman empire they weren't treated kindly, the Arabs and the Greeks were the first people to arise against the Ottomans, go look at the burning of Alexandria, Mardegh square and of course the infamous cleansing of the Hatay province which should have belong to Syria.
I do not understand how you mean that the Armenian Genocide and the Holocaust isn't similar, as this is clearly quite alike. It was the forced deportation and execution of an entire racial/ethnic group for a fanatical ideal.
Now I live in South Africa, we have only had democracy since 1994 and complete equality for all races (believe I know, imagine growing up mixed race, of a Native American race no one knows in this part of the world and a Celtic ancestry which got scorn from both Afrikaners and Englishmen), we aren't perfect, but all races are now equal, if you're black, white, mixed, asian indian or east asian, etc., you are given the same rights, you can live in any area, you speak your language, you can be proud of your descent.
Turkey in many ways mirrors the Apartheid system with their policy towards the Kurds, but it is possible to change.
I will agree it was hard maybe in 1948, but you know as well as I do that some of the policies done in Turkey, like Bloody Sunday and Tarsim is unjustifiable, and these were Turks being killed too by their own government
Fair reply Eti, and its nice that everyone can discuss this without any argumentum ad hominem or personal attacks, lets get into this though :
I can understand that it is hard to convert a country from a religious monarchy to a secular democracy (although democracy here should be used with hyphens), but the problem is that many countries have done just that, without any manner of bloodshed toward foreign people (in this case the Republic of Armenia), which argue if you want was an illegal attack on Armenian soil merely to take lands because Kemal was not happy with the Treaty of Sevres this also removed the promise of a Kurdish homeland.
Now lets just for two seconds say that this did not happen, that Turkey immediately admitted to the Armenian genocide, never invaded Armenia and never oppressed Kurds, do you think there would be some of the conflicts Turkey faces today as well. For one thing, the Turkish government would not need to whine about the PKK, because they would have no reason to fight guerilla wars as they would have their Kurdistan, we wouldn't be debating Western Armenia in this context and if the Genocide was recognised, there would be greater love between Turkey and Armenia.
I will agree converting a religious monarchy (whether Christian, Hindu or Muslim) is hard, I'm not saying the other countries who did the same were perfect, they had violence as well, but Kemal had no reason to attack the Country of Armenia.
As to the Arabs, you know as well as I do that during the Ottoman empire they weren't treated kindly, the Arabs and the Greeks were the first people to arise against the Ottomans, go look at the burning of Alexandria, Mardegh square and of course the infamous cleansing of the Hatay province which should have belong to Syria.
I do not understand how you mean that the Armenian Genocide and the Holocaust isn't similar, as this is clearly quite alike. It was the forced deportation and execution of an entire racial/ethnic group for a fanatical ideal.
Now I live in South Africa, we have only had democracy since 1994 and complete equality for all races (believe I know, imagine growing up mixed race, of a Native American race no one knows in this part of the world and a Celtic ancestry which got scorn from both Afrikaners and Englishmen), we aren't perfect, but all races are now equal, if you're black, white, mixed, asian indian or east asian, etc., you are given the same rights, you can live in any area, you speak your language, you can be proud of your descent.
Turkey in many ways mirrors the Apartheid system with their policy towards the Kurds, but it is possible to change.
I will agree it was hard maybe in 1948, but you know as well as I do that some of the policies done in Turkey, like Bloody Sunday and Tarsim is unjustifiable, and these were Turks being killed too by their own government
That sounded so accurate man and quite good, it should a song title
An englihtment era dream (or nightmare)
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