Vive La France !!!!!

[Siggie]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

See that's the error in the reasoning here. He does care. It is wrong to assume that he must not care about the genocide. It's just that in this instance, he doesn't think this is the right thing to do. He stated his reasons. None of them included being a turk, sympathizing with turks, wanting to benefit the turks, or otherwise not caring that his countrymen were massacred. That is a huge assumption. The choices are not: either you think this type of law is good or you don't care that 1.5 million people were murdered. That is a false dichotomy. Someone can value all of the same things as you and have all the same long-term goals, and yet still come to a different conclusion about the appropriate course of action to take.

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

I've seen the future and it's French.

[Eddo211]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

This will do nothing against Ankara except that they will gain more popularity in Turkey. I don't see how this is a blow against Turkey, it only shows that some people are willing to do anything to smother everything that doesn't agree with their view. I want to fight the trukish propaganda machine, go and study history, research the genocide and release papers, write books about the subject make the people hear your view. There is a right way to do things and there is a wrong way.
Laws like this have the power to stop historical debate on any subject. How long until governments pass laws that it is illegal to discuss their view on history on any subject possible?

Again you are not looking at this with tunnel vision. If this law goes through the Turkish government can forget about the EU membership, last nail in the coffin. This law also puts a dent in one of the top Turkey's national security policies which is the Genocide issue, getting passed the 100 years mark.

You wanna write books, or debate the facts and open the grounds for denialists be my guest, just remember
our Genocide is a fact known by majority......its recognition is political, not historical.

You think you haven't been effected by the AG? You will later.

In my case
A son of Ararat who became the Son of Alborz who now prays to mountain in CA.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Again you are not looking at this with tunnel vision. If this law goes through the Turkish government can forget about the EU membership, last nail in the coffin. This law also puts a dent in one of the top Turkey's national security policies which is the Genocide issue, getting passed the 100 years mark.

Maybe you are right but I don't see these kinds of laws changing anything. Our long term objective is getting back our lands and I think that is what our main priority should be.

You wanna write books, or debate the facts and open the grounds for denialists be my guest, just remember
our Genocide is a fact known by majority......its recognition is political, not historical.

People write books about the Romans and the fall of Rome, does that mean that there is a discussion going on? No you need to educate the masses and the best way is through books and not with laws like this.

You think you haven't been effected by the AG? You will later.

Being affected and being victim are two different thing. Ofcourse we are affected but we are not victims. Read bell's post, he says it better than I could.

In my case
A son of Ararat who became the Son of Alborz who now prays to mountain in CA.

You can not compare that to what the real victims of the genocide went through. My point is we can never feel what they felt, we can relate to it ofcourse. But to say we know what they went through and how they felt is an insult to them in my opinion.

Ahhww Siggie u got me there :P

But really there are religious sect doing mass suicides ,do you remember the ones in 2000 ?
Well bell i'm the last from my family to carry the last name , but not only the memory of my grandfathers is the thing that marked me but also of how my ancestors and there's memory's are remembered on turkey and how they view me ,dont forget the step of genocide is the last that we are walking right now.

This is what I am talking about, you trying to equate (correct me if I'm wrong) to the people who went through the genocide. Ofcourse it had effects on you, it had effects on the whole nation. But we have to stop being the victim. Isn't it time to move on and try to get our lands back, improve our nation. Let us never forget what happened in 1915 and let's make the world acknowledge the pain and suffering of our ancestors. Those that were slaughtered and the greater pain of those that survived. One thing that we need to shake us is this victim role we have going on.

Karot u said something very wrong , if there is something toorks thinking when they planed the Genocide is that one day none will give 2 cents especially the assimilated Armenians like you, take your time and think about it. Adolf said that too,so have a spirit and pride in yourself .

Where did I say let's forget, the only thing I said let's not talk in the name of those that went through the genocide and act like we know what they went through. If an Armenian assamilates today it is his or her own fault, in the day and age of the internet where you can find so much information for free, but this is a discussion for an other topic.

Unjust things happen even now upon us and our nation wake up.

It happened, let's remember and get strong enough to never let it happen again. But let's not play the victim!

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

You can not compare that to what the real victims of the genocide went through. My point is we can never feel what they felt, we can relate to it ofcourse. But to say we know what they went through and how they felt is an insult to them in my opinion.
This is what I am talking about, you trying to equate (correct me if I'm wrong) to the people who went through the genocide. Ofcourse it had effects on you, it had effects on the whole nation. But we have to stop being the victim. Isn't it time to move on and try to get our lands back, improve our nation. Let us never forget what happened in 1915 and let's make the world acknowledge the pain and suffering of our ancestors. Those that were slaughtered and the greater pain of those that survived. One thing that we need to shake us is this victim role we have going on.
Where did I say let's forget, the only thing I said let's not talk in the name of those that went through the genocide and act like we know what they went through. If an Armenian assamilates today it is his or her own fault, in the day and age of the internet where you can find so much information for free, but this is a discussion for an other topic.
It happened, let's remember and get strong enough to never let it happen again. But let's not play the victim!

I think the difference between your view and mine is that you consider 1915 as the year of the AG.

I consider it to be an ongoing process. Look at the years beyond 1915 through to 1923. Look at Sumgait and Baku. Look at the desecration in Nakhichevan, look at the history of Artsakh under baboon control. Look at the much needed resources Armenia has to plough into defence, resources that could be used elsewhere. While ever they deny it they will continue it.

That's the difference between us. That's why I believe this law is a just law.

"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard, see we've all got quotes.

[Samael]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Also, be more original It's clear your Flying Octopus is a cheap immitation of His Noodliness. Everyone knows that noodles > tentacles.

Everyone but the Japanese

[Tigranakert]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Sayce-Picot Agreement - Cilician Armenia

According to the Sayce-Picot agreement, France was to get the most of the Cilician province. The French command could depend on the Armenian battalion of the Orient Legion. Instituted in 1916 upon the initiative of Boghos Nubar Pasha, its composition was 95 percent Armenians and included survivors of Musa Dagh and volunteers from Europe and the United States. Under the leadership of Lieutenant Colonel Romieu, It had fought in Palestine and Syria.

In regards to the articles of the Armistice of Mudros, signed between England representing the allies with Turkey. On October 31, 1918, Anglo-French troops debarked in Alexandretta. On November 28, 1918, launched the freeing operation, aimed to create an Armenian national home in Cilicia, under French protection. The Armenian Legion followed the withdrawal of Turkish troops and entered Cilicia.

Responding to the French High Commissioner George Picot, 170,000 survivors of the massacres repatriated by the French authority to Cilicia, to reorganize they're national home. The workshop of restoration and rebuilding the country was going on. The churches were reopen, the Mersin harbor repaired, the commerce and the artisan flourished. And during two years, Cilician Armenia rounded with great hope, and cheer was dominated all over the population.

Alas soon after the restoration of peace, France made a secret agreement with the Turks to withdraw from Cilicia, so turned forlorn hope into despair. The withdrawal of France from Cilicia, 1921-1923, undoubtedly opens up the way for further attacks by the Turks upon unprotected Armenians in Cilicia. New massacres started again, where killed more than 40 thousand souls. After the Franco-Kemalist treaty, the Armenian survivors scattered through, Syria, Lebanon and elsewhere.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Sayce-Picot Agreement - Cilician Armenia

According to the Sayce-Picot agreement, France was to get the most of the Cilician province. The French command could depend on the Armenian battalion of the Orient Legion. Instituted in 1916 upon the initiative of Boghos Nubar Pasha, its composition was 95 percent Armenians and included survivors of Musa Dagh and volunteers from Europe and the United States. Under the leadership of Lieutenant Colonel Romieu, It had fought in Palestine and Syria.

In regards to the articles of the Armistice of Mudros, signed between England representing the allies with Turkey. On October 31, 1918, Anglo-French troops debarked in Alexandretta. On November 28, 1918, launched the freeing operation, aimed to create an Armenian national home in Cilicia, under French protection. The Armenian Legion followed the withdrawal of Turkish troops and entered Cilicia.

Responding to the French High Commissioner George Picot, 170,000 survivors of the massacres repatriated by the French authority to Cilicia, to reorganize they're national home. The workshop of restoration and rebuilding the country was going on. The churches were reopen, the Mersin harbor repaired, the commerce and the artisan flourished. And during two years, Cilician Armenia rounded with great hope, and cheer was dominated all over the population.

Alas soon after the restoration of peace, France made a secret agreement with the Turks to withdraw from Cilicia, so turned forlorn hope into despair. The withdrawal of France from Cilicia, 1921-1923, undoubtedly opens up the way for further attacks by the Turks upon unprotected Armenians in Cilicia. New massacres started again, where killed more than 40 thousand souls. After the Franco-Kemalist treaty, the Armenian survivors scattered through, Syria, Lebanon and elsewhere.

You throw your scorn on other nations, yet you still expect the citizens of those other nations to protect you and die for you.
Cilicia was not worth the life of a single Frenchman, and the French were wise enough to realise it before too many died.
Also, you are reproducing Turkish propaganda: there was no Allied plan to establish "an Armenian national home in Cilicia". That is a Turkish nationalist myth invented after the event to justify their "war of independence" and their post-war genocide of the area's Armenian population.
It is "Sykes-Picot" not "Sayce-Picot".[/QUOTE]

[Tigranakert]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

You throw your scorn on other nations, yet you still expect the citizens of those other nations to protect you and die for you.
Cilicia was not worth the life of a single Frenchman, and the French were wise enough to realise it before too many died.
Also, you are reproducing Turkish propaganda: there was no Allied plan to establish "an Armenian national home in Cilicia". That is a Turkish nationalist myth invented after the event to justify their "war of independence" and their post-war genocide of the area's Armenian population.
It is "Sykes-Picot" not "Sayce-Picot".

Armenians should never expect citizens of any Western nation to protect us, let alone die for us.

[Mos]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Armenians should never expect citizens of any Western nation to protect us, let alone die for us.

We have to be self-reliant. We can't rely on anybody too much.