Religion and Atheism

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I think that topic needs a recap The discussion was about homosexuality being a sin. Kanadahye for some reason started talking about retarded kids and how they are a result of drug addicted parents. So I then asked that question to see what he was trying to say (I still don't understand what he was trying to say). I certainly didn't want to imply that God makes kids retarded. I definitely don't think God makes any of these decisions (yes I also don't think God makes some kids crippled to make them bear the cross or understand him more deeply etc).

Ever see a handicapped person work their a$$ off putting perfectly healthy people to shame? Don't others get inspiration from these people anymore or are they satisfied with being lazy? A handicapped person doesn't feel sorry for him/herself, it's other people that do. What I was implying is that it's not black and white... there are instances where anomalies might occur regardless of how healthy of a lifestyle people live. I was insinuating that increasing risky behaviour in addition to the hormones/chemicals surrounding our environment throws off the scales.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him.

John 9:1-3

Your question goes into the field of theodicy - i.e. the study of the question: if God, why evil.

I think that topic needs a recap The discussion was about homosexuality being a sin. Kanadahye for some reason started talking about retarded kids and how they are a result of drug addicted parents. So I then asked that question to see what he was trying to say (I still don't understand what he was trying to say). I certainly didn't want to imply that God makes kids retarded. I definitely don't think God makes any of these decisions (yes I also don't think God makes some kids crippled to make them bear the cross or understand him more deeply etc).

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Sins are regarded as anything that's seen as destructive behaviour. I think you can connect the dots from there.

Yes I certainly can connect the dots. Declaring homosexuality a sin is a very destructive behavior towards the gays so I definitely see how it is a sin to say homosexuality is a sin

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I don't believe that there is such thing as born gay.

What specifically do you base the belief on?

People become gay by choice influenced by an experience. And the sky is the limit for the variety of experiences that influence such a choice, it could be a traumatic past such as child molestation, it could be failure(s) with the opposite sex, or it could be just the simple, human curiosity. But being born gay is biologically and scientifically impossible because Nature programs sexes accordingly and always the same way, if the Nature (or call it God, if you like) decides to program someone differently than in that case that particular individual will be born as a hermaphrodite.

This would be a fine belief if humans were the only species that had homosexuals as well as males and females. But there are many other high level mammals where we have many documented cases of homosexuality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior

Do you "believe" that those animals are also influenced after birth to be gay or is there perhaps biology at play there but not in humans?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Thank you. Seems that many of those can occur whether or not you believe in God or not. So I will ask again ... How about retarded kids that are born from God loving, non-drug addicted parents? And of course I will ask again what this has to do with the real discussion about homosexuality being a sin .. you still didn't answer that.

Sins are regarded as anything that's seen as destructive behaviour. I think you can connect the dots from there.

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I am anti-marriage as an institution (Gay or straight, doesn't matter to me).

That's your choice and that's fair enough by me. Just make sure you keep paying your taxes because you do in fact live in a society and just like anyone else you must contribute your share towards its upkeep, which includes subsidising the less fortunate (i.e. single mothers, poorer families, the elderly, the immigrants etc.)

The problem with modern religion is trying to classify homosexuality as "sin" when there are soooo many gays that are biologically gay (as in God made them that way).

I don't believe that there is such thing as born gay. People become gay by choice influenced by an experience. And the sky is the limit for the variety of experiences that influence such a choice, it could be a traumatic past such as child molestation, it could be failure(s) with the opposite sex, or it could be just the simple, human curiosity. But being born gay is biologically and scientifically impossible because Nature programs sexes accordingly and always the same way, if the Nature (or call it God, if you like) decides to program someone differently than in that case that particular individual will be born as a hermaphrodite.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Religion and Atheism

How about retarded kids that are born from God loving, non-drug addicted parents? Are you saying that is because of the media? I obviously don't agree.

By the way, how did we go from gay to retarded with hormonal imbalance?

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him.

John 9:1-3

Your question goes into the field of theodicy - i.e. the study of the question: if God, why evil. Obviously, this question can never be fully or adequately answered by anyone. The 'problem of evil' is a problem for the atheist as well as the believer. The atheist will say, 'evil happens either by accident, chance or the malevolence of others'. This may be OK for some, but try telling this to a person afflicted by suffering...

I think it's safe to say that the Christian would say that God permits suffering either to bring the afflicted person to Christ, to bring others to Christ or both. It may seem "cruel" by worldly standards, but sometimes God knows that this is the only way that a person will come to know Him - i.e. by bearing the Cross with Christ as well as those that must show that person mercy.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

What causes Mental Retardation?
http://www.searo.who.int/en/Section1...n1825_8090.htm

Thank you. Seems that many of those can occur whether or not you believe in God or not. So I will ask again ... How about retarded kids that are born from God loving, non-drug addicted parents? And of course I will ask again what this has to do with the real discussion about homosexuality being a sin .. you still didn't answer that.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

How about retarded kids that are born from God loving, non-drug addicted parents?

What causes Mental Retardation?
http://www.searo.who.int/en/Section1...n1825_8090.htm

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Still remains:

How about retarded kids that are born from God loving, non-drug addicted parents?