Religion and Atheism

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Before I get dragged down in any discussion about whether or not animals are "intelligent", we would have to establish what intelligence means. The Turing Test defines it using a human for comparison. If that is your definition of intelligence, then sure, no other animal is intelligent since obviously other animals are not human.

HOWEVER, as Siggie said, that is a very different statement than ability to have thoughts, memory, make informed decisions, plan, and even trick! Yes, my cat can trick me and run out of the house by pretending she doesn't want to. You want to call this "instinct and memory" .. sure ... call it instinct and memory. The behavior however is very intelligent.

The reason this conversation will go nowhere is because there is no good definition of intelligence. Armenians would love to claim that playing chess well is a sign of intelligence. But then humans get their asses kicked in chess by computers. Does it mean computers are intelligent? I don't know.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

So you're saying they had some innate knowledge that you are attributing to a deity?

Either that or they found a stash of popular science.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

That's because they had the knowledge at one point and didn't need Christ until they strayed from God and starting behaving wickedly.

So you're saying they had some innate knowledge that you are attributing to a deity?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

so are you saying that there was a moment in history that all human beings believed in the god of Abraham?

Not all, there were probably tribes disconnected from the Abrahamic people.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Religion and Atheism

That's because they had the knowledge at one point and didn't need Christ until they strayed from God and starting behaving wickedly.

so are you saying that there was a moment in history that all human beings believed in the god of Abraham?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

The fact that the human population was growing just fine before Christianity, demonstrates that people know how and with whom to have sex without being "taught."

That's because they had the knowledge at one point and didn't need Christ until they strayed from God and starting behaving wickedly.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

All the people that put animals on the same level as humans need to be locked up.... preferably in a mental institution with their pets.

I don't think anyone here did this. But to say they're incapable of thought is incorrect.

It's a lifestyle CHOICE. Many people choose to be bi or gay or straight... they build their life around sex and do whatever they prefer. In cases where there are hormonal imbalances or mental issues, then it's more of how the individual perceives the opposite/same gender.

Putting it in caps or repeating it enough doesn't make it true. I'll ask again... support your conclusion!

Are you really this dense? I didn't think it was possible.... if you don't teach children anything, what the hell do you think they'll end up doing?

I've told you this multiple times... Comment on my post and not me as a person. It's also good to be flexible in thought (I think I've heard this called thinking outside the box? ) and consider the possibility that there are other reasons why people don't agree with you (e.g. you've done a crappy job of supporting your position) other than they're "dense."

The fact that the human population was growing just fine before Christianity, demonstrates that people know how and with whom to have sex without being "taught."

[KanadaHye]

All the people that put animals on the same level as humans need to be locked up.... preferably in a mental institution with their pets.

As I said to Kanada. This is a conclusion. In a valid argument, you start with premises that lead to a particular conclusion. How do you arrive at this conclusion? What set of facts logically lead here?

It's a lifestyle CHOICE. Many people choose to be bi or gay or straight... they build their life around sex and do whatever they prefer. In cases where there are hormonal imbalances or mental issues, then it's more of how the individual perceives the opposite/same gender.

Do you mean that if Christianity didn't teach people that it's wrong to be gay then guys would be trying to plug other men's holes? Really?! You can say this is what you believe with a straight face?

Are you really this dense? I didn't think it was possible.... if you don't teach children anything, what the hell do you think they'll end up doing?

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

All them Mammals listed has nothing to do with humans, including the two Penguins stuck in a Zoo (Jail).....however seeing a African male lion banging another must be a sight. I have seen dogs do each other but never chickens. Do you have proof that Male Chimps show those behaviors?

Men like to plug holes and Christianity keeps us focused on correct target.

How can you make women’s Boobs grow?
Manswers: You give her a crying baby ringtone and call her repeatedly. It is scientifically proven that the sound of a crying baby makes women's breast grow.

BTW, Mother nature doesn't make a mistake.

Do you mean that if Christianity didn't teach people that it's wrong to be gay then guys would be trying to plug other men's holes? Really?! You can say this is what you believe with a straight face?

And mother nature doesn't make mistakes?!
Umm... Cleft palates, down syndrome, heart abnormalities, etc. What's that about? "Mother Nature" intends for some children to be retarded?

Animals are neither smart nor stupid because animals can’t think, they don’t have a mind. They, including your beloved cat, act purely on their instincts and their memory. The combination of these two elements (instinct and memory) produces the behaviour which you call “smart”.

It's pretty simple. You're wrong. Utterly and completely wrong. Animals are indeed capable of some thought (and have different size cortexes that correlate with their capacity for thought). It is not my dog's "instict" to give me a tissue out of the box when I sneeze. I taught him that. He learned that. I don't know how you're defining "mind", but it's irrelevant anyway because you're wrong that they cannot think. How do you think human beings learn if not with memory? And without prior experiences (again memory), we'd have nothing to draw on to help us make sense of our world, know how to act in various situations, predict outcomes, etc. Just using ones memory is a form of thought.

I recommend brushing up on some Cognition reading. You are woefully uninformed.

Paedophilia also goes “far far faaaaaar beyond just a physical act”. People (say a 50 year old man and a 15 year old boy) commit to each other and live their entire lives in homosexual and paedophilic relationship. That cannot be simply because of the act of sex, can it, Sip?

Well, of course not, because these twin brothers: homosexuality and paedophilia are very serious psychological disorders, they are mind sicknesses of the worst kind and the only way out of them is by healing the mind, which starts by admitting the sickness.

This isn't really a fair comparison... Minors are not capable of consent and so to compare homosexuality to pedophilia is misleading. I think this is an attractive comparison for you because you want to make homosexuality sound perverted and wrong and you're trying to accomplish this by association.

I'm not aware of any evidence (scientific style efficacy) that shows that those programs they have to "cure" people of their homosexuality work. Why do you think that would be, if it's a choice or if it's curable?

Choice is present in absolutely everything humans do, or not do. Choice is the name of the road that leads someone to homosexuality, not their birth, the nature or the God.

As I said to Kanada. This is a conclusion. In a valid argument, you start with premises that lead to a particular conclusion. How do you arrive at this conclusion? What set of facts logically lead here?

Blaming the latter three is, at best, a classic behaviour of psychologically weak people, and at worst, a deliberate and calculated attempt to attack religions in order to discredit and weaken them in the eyes of the sheeple (the brainless masses) whose numerically superior voice (the so-called democracy) can be used to change laws to suite gays. Attacks on the institute of marriage and attempts to create gay priests, are some examples of the latter.

That's funny (and ironic in the context of your post) because don't they call congregations "flocks"?
Don't get all offended by the way; I'm not calling you a sheep. I just thought it was a funny coincidence.

It is not a violation of the "institute of marriage." Churches are separate and they can deny gays to marry in them to their hearts content.
What they cannot do however is deny them legal marriage because that is separate from the church. Gotta love separation of church and state!

My message to the gays is this: If you want to be a gay, go for your life! Just be aware that governments will pass laws that will tax your sorry arses so hard that your butt-plugs will pop out from your mouths. Before you b-itch-scream "discrimination" - stop and think: Our (normal family people's) retirement will be supported by the taxes paid by our children who by that time will be grown and working professionals. If the gays aren't taxed significantly more than we are then who is going to pay for their retirement? That's right - the gays want it to be our children! Because there is no one else who can pay, and because gays (being the selfish and sick bastards they are) 9 out of 10 times don't have children and the 1 which will have a child will create and unleash on the society another useless sicko like himself.

You need to ask your parents to review manners with you because this is unjustifiably offensive, not to mention a violation of the forum rules.

This is an absurd suggestion. If someone is heterosexual and doesn't have children, we don't deny them medicare or social security. Nor do we vary what is paid out according to how many children one has. These services are for people who pay into the system and last I checked, there's no homosexual tax evasion scheme.

Becoming homosexual is a choice, then, once you are a gay, it is a disease, a disease of the mind that can also lead to many diseases of the body as well. (HIV etc.)

Promiscuous and risky sex, homosexual OR heterosexual, can lead to sexually-communicable diseases.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

It seems people are terrible at making choices which is why they would be better living under a communist dictatorship where all the choices and decisions are made for them.