Religion and Atheism

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

"This just goes to show how easy it is to manipulate people. "
That is my point. Religion is the most effective tool for such manipulation. It really does not matter what this tool(religion) was designed for. What matters is how this tool is used.

In some parts of the world, or most you can make an argument for this. However in the industrialized west, the media is the preferred method.
Again, there is nothing wrong with religion, but with those who claim to act in its name and in fact are going against its teachings in the worst way(s).

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Do i realy have to point out the obvious? Dont the same people who use religion also use it through media? Have you seen sunday morning tv programings?

[jgk3]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Do i realy have to point out the obvious? Dont the same people who use religion also use it through media? Have you seen sunday morning tv programings?

Tv today in general is part of what replaced the role of the church from before modern times, broadcasting prescriptive behavior to society.

Today's churches don't have the monopoly over that business, they are on the sidelines, they can't get the masses anymore, so they focus on their little niche audience (which varies between different churches/religious centers). I don't understand why you're so upset at religion... because people, whether or not they go to church or whatever, seem to have a hard time living a life free of prescribed norms imposed on them by people who stand to exploit them in such a state of belief, and I don't see any improvement really by ousting "creationism" from our society's menu of possible beliefs to subscribe to.

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Tv today in general is part of what replaced the role of the church from before modern times, broadcasting prescriptive behavior to society.

Today's churches don't have the monopoly over that business, they are on the sidelines, they can't get the masses anymore, so they focus on their little niche audience (which varies between different churches/religious centers). I don't understand why you're so upset at religion... because people, whether or not they go to church or whatever, seem to have a hard time living a life free of prescribed norms imposed on them by people who stand to exploit them in such a state of belief, and I don't see any improvement really by ousting "creationism" from our society's menu of possible beliefs to subscribe to.

Well there will always be some kind of spiritual or religious belief, it might be insane or retarded; but people still believe the earth is flat. Creationism is effectively the same, some go a step further and say we don't exist or that we are just a bunch of gas clouds floating in nothingness. But calling creationism 'science', that's silly. It's one thing to claim evolution is false and think there is a better theory, but quite another to put one even worse (and more flaky in evidence) in its place.

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Tv today in general is part of what replaced the role of the church from before modern times, broadcasting prescriptive behavior to society.

Today's churches don't have the monopoly over that business, they are on the sidelines, they can't get the masses anymore, so they focus on their little niche audience (which varies between different churches/religious centers). I don't understand why you're so upset at religion... because people, whether or not they go to church or whatever, seem to have a hard time living a life free of prescribed norms imposed on them by people who stand to exploit them in such a state of belief, and I don't see any improvement really by ousting "creationism" from our society's menu of possible beliefs to subscribe to.

I am upset with religion because i believe it does more harm then good to humanity. From catholic schoolboys who cant walk straight to muslim women who had their xxxxts cut out-religion is full of the most vial things one human can do to another. Religion is used to justify all kinds of abuses, theft, rape, torture, genocide...all done in the name of religion-yet you still need to ask me why i am upset at religion? Creationism is a joke and if you do not understand why it is a joke then the education system has failed you miserably. Maybe your ok with living in a society that hails a joke as the law of life but i am not.

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I am upset with religion because i believe it does more harm then good to humanity. From catholic schoolboys who cant walk straight to muslim women who had their xxxxts cut out-religion is full of the most vial things one human can do to another. Religion is used to justify all kinds of abuses, theft, rape, torture, genocide...all done in the name of religion-yet you still need to ask me why i am upset at religion? Creationism is a joke and if you do not understand why it is a joke then the education system has failed you miserably. Maybe your ok with living in a society that hails a joke as the law of life but i am not.

This is the same as saying guns are evil blah blah blah, when it is infact the people who wield the guns and do terrible things are the evil ones. Religion in and of itself is not bad, but you can not seem to grasp that people will do terrible things to one another regardless of religion, they will always have something to justify their actions. Human nature has more to do with this than religion, which in fact helps to control the evil tendencies within us all.

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

This is the same as saying guns are evil blah blah blah, when it is infact the people who wield the guns and do terrible things are the evil ones. Religion in and of itself is not bad, but you can not seem to grasp that people will do terrible things to one another regardless of religion, they will always have something to justify their actions. Human nature has more to do with this than religion, which in fact helps to control the evil tendencies within us all.

I agree that religion is not inherintly evile and it is people who use it for evile but i will strongly disagree that it is effective in controling evile tendencies, i would instead argue that no tool has ever been more effectively used like religion has been for justifying evile tendencies. Sure they may have used something else to justify their actions if not for religion but the fact that they chose religion means that it was the most effective tool at their disposal. Religion is too good at propogating evile and spreading ignorence, so good in fact that it is and has been the tool of choice for evile doers.

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I agree that religion is not inherintly evile and it is people who use it for evile but i will strongly disagree that it is effective in controling evile tendencies, i would instead argue that no tool has ever been more effectively used like religion has been for justifying evile tendencies. Sure they may have used something else to justify their actions if not for religion but the fact that they chose religion means that it was the most effective tool at their disposal. Religion is too good at propogating evile and spreading ignorence, so good in fact that it is and has been the tool of choice for evile doers.

On the latter part we will have to agree to disagree because like I said, this convo isn't going to go anywhere with either of us sticking to our points.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Well there will always be some kind of spiritual or religious belief, it might be insane or retarded; but people still believe the earth is flat. Creationism is effectively the same, some go a step further and say we don't exist or that we are just a bunch of gas clouds floating in nothingness. But calling creationism 'science', that's silly. It's one thing to claim evolution is false and think there is a better theory, but quite another to put one even worse (and more flaky in evidence) in its place.

Science itself has "created" elements to place on the periodic table which don't exist in nature. To boast that everything came from nothing is no more or no less absurd than to believe that there is/are greater sources of intelligence which created our existence. Strict evolutionary teachings has created an entire generation of students who believe in nothing, and lack creativity and the vision to think with their minds and hands. I've seen these clowns enter the workforce and within a week start accumulating injury reports. They are pretty much useless as far as skills go and should just stick to taking liberal arts classes and working at walmart stocking shelves.

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Science itself has "created" elements to place on the periodic table which don't exist in nature. To boast that everything came from nothing is no more or no less absurd than to believe that there is/are greater sources of intelligence which created our existence. Strict evolutionary teachings has created an entire generation of students who believe in nothing, and lack creativity and the vision to think with their minds and hands. I've seen these clowns enter the workforce and within a week start accumulating injury reports. They are pretty much useless as far as skills go and should just stick to taking liberal arts classes and working at walmart stocking shelves.

Evolution and the creation of the universe are two different theories. One for what happens when life is created and one for the creation of the universe itself; the flaw (and debate) is of course the in between; how do you get from creation of the universe to the creation of life?

Well the truth is that we will never find the answer to the beginning of the universe and what caused our existence whether you follow science or religion, for religion though you have to die to see whether creationist theory is true ; as for science the theory of the universe and life would probably be so complex that we will never likely be able to find the answer.

As for the lack of creativity and believing in nothing part, consumerism and the money, status and power culture is to blame for that one; people don't want to be creative or to believe in things as they want money, power and status and anyone who doesn't is considered a failure or an outcast.