Religion and Atheism

[Stark Evade]

Re: Religion and Atheism

There may be a difference between them but rights cannot exist without power thus there is a dependent relationship here with rights being the dependent variable, so dependent in fact that rights cannot exist wo power.

I think your misconstruing the relationship as a dependency of the rights' existence on the force that enforces them. In order to enforce something, it first has to be accepted as something worth enforcing. It gets that worth because there are reasons behind it and ultimately those reasons are fueled by what I stated is our social evolution. Anyway, this can go on forever.

[Armanen]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I'd like to jump start this thread again. So here goes.

What is/are the sources or basis of ethnics and morality for atheists? If any of our fellow atheists would care to share their particular source(s), that would be nice.

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I'd like to jump start this thread again. So here goes.

What is/are the sources or basis of ethnics and morality for atheists? If any of our fellow atheists would care to share their particular source(s), that would be nice.

I am a agnostic not a athiest but i think i can help you out there. Many people today have been so brainwashed that they think religion is the sole source of ethics and morality. While the church/mosque/synagog... would love for all of us to believe such nonsense, and have us follow their own brand, we can easily argue against this assertion by asking a simple rehtorical question of our own. Was there not morality and ethics prior to religion? This is a rehtorical question because anyone with half a brain will answer that yes there was morality and ethics prior to religion. People had their rights and wrongs and goods and bads long before they concieved religion. The source of morality and ethics has never been religion, as a matter of fact one can make a good argument that religion has effectively distorted our sence of morality and ethics to better fit it all into its own agenda. The real source comes from common sense. People have always been social animals thus if i do something bad to you i can surely expect the same in return and this may prevent me from being bad to others. If i do something nice for you then perhaps you will return the favor. The later part is not as dependable a responce as the former but they both are effective in shaping morals and ethics loooong before religion ever existed. So the short and sweet answer to the question is common sense.

[hipeter924]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I find history, politics and philosophy more interesting than science and religion put together, when I find interest in either they have to be in relation to history, politics or philosophy. When I attended religious studies lectures I fell asleep nearly, and the debate bored me to death; ironically when I attended a philosophy class with some Hindu/Buddhist perspectives on free will I was really fascinated.

[jgk3]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I am a agnostic not a athiest but i think i can help you out there. Many people today have been so brainwashed that they think religion is the sole source of ethics and morality. While the church/mosque/synagog... would love for all of us to believe such nonsense, and have us follow their own brand, we can easily argue against this assertion by asking a simple rehtorical question of our own. Was there not morality and ethics prior to religion? This is a rehtorical question because anyone with half a brain will answer that yes there was morality and ethics prior to religion. People had their rights and wrongs and goods and bads long before they concieved religion. The source of morality and ethics has never been religion, as a matter of fact one can make a good argument that religion has effectively distorted our sence of morality and ethics to better fit it all into its own agenda. The real source comes from common sense. People have always been social animals thus if i do something bad to you i can surely expect the same in return and this may prevent me from being bad to others. If i do something nice for you then perhaps you will return the favor. The later part is not as dependable a responce as the former but they both are effective in shaping morals and ethics loooong before religion ever existed. So the short and sweet answer to the question is common sense.

Religious traditions link a set of morals/ethics with the divine, as the divine is seen as the primary source of human existence or nature. Thus, if you argue to a believer that morals/ethics don't have to come from God since afterall, you're an agnostic who has those morals/ethics, they could turn around and say something like, "Yes, those things still come from God because you were created in God's image. Even if you turn away from Him spiritually, you cannot get rid of the moral/ethical attributes He imbued into the blueprint of your being".

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

In other words God (whether mortals believe exists or doesn't exist) isn't any less or more significant just because someone chooses to believe or not to believe.

It's like saying I don't believe there is a red elephant in the closet but if there is, whether you believe there is or isn't doesn't make the red elephant appear or disappear except only in your mind.

The source of morality and ethics has never been religion, as a matter of fact one can make a good argument that religion has effectively distorted our sence of morality and ethics to better fit it all into its own agenda. The real source comes from common sense. People have always been social animals thus if i do something bad to you i can surely expect the same in return and this may prevent me from being bad to others. If i do something nice for you then perhaps you will return the favor. The later part is not as dependable a responce as the former but they both are effective in shaping morals and ethics loooong before religion ever existed. So the short and sweet answer to the question is common sense.

So do you let your children learn "common sense" from developing their own morals and ethics by playing it out in the real world, or do you teach them that if they do something bad, they should expect something bad in return? Granted even if they are skeptical about your parenting, they will test your teachings for themselves and come to their own conclusions whether or not mommy and daddy were right.

Common sense isn't always that common.

[Eddo211]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Sure there was ethics and moral before Christianity but one can argue where is that moral compass pointing to, as far as your values (Christian values) are concerned, be it you are religious or not.

[jgk3]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Sure there was ethics and moral before Christianity but one can argue where is that moral compass pointing to, as far as your values (Christian values) are concerned, be it you are religious or not.

In North America, one can argue that we live with values historically derived from Christianity (more specifically, protestantism) whether we like it or not. You can't erase all the centuries of our society being shaped and molded by it, just by stamping out the name of God wherever you find it.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

In North America, one can argue that we live with values historically derived from Christianity (more specifically, protestantism) whether we like it or not. You can't erase all the centuries of our society being shaped and molded by it, just by stamping out the name of God wherever you find it.

The laws are derived from Judeo-Christian principles... both economic and moral laws. The parallels between American and ancient Greek philosophy are pretty apparent as well. I guess I'd be interested to see what a society based on atheist laws would look like. I believe Albania adopted state atheism at one point after WWII... I take it things didn't turn out too well.

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Religious traditions link a set of morals/ethics with the divine, as the divine is seen as the primary source of human existence or nature. Thus, if you argue to a believer that morals/ethics don't have to come from God since afterall, you're an agnostic who has those morals/ethics, they could turn around and say something like, "Yes, those things still come from God because you were created in God's image. Even if you turn away from Him spiritually, you cannot get rid of the moral/ethical attributes He imbued into the blueprint of your being".

Religion has played this game all along. When confronted by proof which contradicts its teaching it simply makes up a new fairytale. First they said the world is 4,000 years old-when we discovered dinasaurs and carbon dating it said yeh sure the world is older then 4,000 years but to god one year is many of our human years so...-they stated the world is flat but when proven wrong they said yeh sure its round but still it was made by god so um yeh we are mostly right anyways- they said the world was the center of the universe but when confronted by the evidence to the contrary they killed the man who provided the evidence. Those who started a religion would not recognize it today as their own because religion like everything else changes over time despite claiming all along that it does not. Any shmuck can say o things are the way they are because god wants them to be that way and there really is no argument against this because this statement cannot be proven or disproven. I give this shmuck the benefit of a dought thus i am agnostic not athiest, but i will trust my common sence and rational before i trust some dude in a dress wearing heavy xxxlery, a big beard and carrying a big stick.... If you have common sence and are capable of rational thought then chances are you dont need religion but if your lacking in these attributes then perhaps you would be better of doing things that other people tell you to do.