Religion and Atheism

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Thank you. Seems that many of those can occur whether or not you believe in God or not. So I will ask again ... How about retarded kids that are born from God loving, non-drug addicted parents? And of course I will ask again what this has to do with the real discussion about homosexuality being a sin .. you still didn't answer that.

Sins are regarded as anything that's seen as destructive behaviour. I think you can connect the dots from there.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I don't believe that there is such thing as born gay.

What specifically do you base the belief on?

People become gay by choice influenced by an experience. And the sky is the limit for the variety of experiences that influence such a choice, it could be a traumatic past such as child molestation, it could be failure(s) with the opposite sex, or it could be just the simple, human curiosity. But being born gay is biologically and scientifically impossible because Nature programs sexes accordingly and always the same way, if the Nature (or call it God, if you like) decides to program someone differently than in that case that particular individual will be born as a hermaphrodite.

This would be a fine belief if humans were the only species that had homosexuals as well as males and females. But there are many other high level mammals where we have many documented cases of homosexuality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior

Do you "believe" that those animals are also influenced after birth to be gay or is there perhaps biology at play there but not in humans?

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Sins are regarded as anything that's seen as destructive behaviour. I think you can connect the dots from there.

Yes I certainly can connect the dots. Declaring homosexuality a sin is a very destructive behavior towards the gays so I definitely see how it is a sin to say homosexuality is a sin

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3 Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him.

John 9:1-3

Your question goes into the field of theodicy - i.e. the study of the question: if God, why evil.

I think that topic needs a recap The discussion was about homosexuality being a sin. Kanadahye for some reason started talking about retarded kids and how they are a result of drug addicted parents. So I then asked that question to see what he was trying to say (I still don't understand what he was trying to say). I certainly didn't want to imply that God makes kids retarded. I definitely don't think God makes any of these decisions (yes I also don't think God makes some kids crippled to make them bear the cross or understand him more deeply etc).

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

I think that topic needs a recap The discussion was about homosexuality being a sin. Kanadahye for some reason started talking about retarded kids and how they are a result of drug addicted parents. So I then asked that question to see what he was trying to say (I still don't understand what he was trying to say). I certainly didn't want to imply that God makes kids retarded. I definitely don't think God makes any of these decisions (yes I also don't think God makes some kids crippled to make them bear the cross or understand him more deeply etc).

Ever see a handicapped person work their a$$ off putting perfectly healthy people to shame? Don't others get inspiration from these people anymore or are they satisfied with being lazy? A handicapped person doesn't feel sorry for him/herself, it's other people that do. What I was implying is that it's not black and white... there are instances where anomalies might occur regardless of how healthy of a lifestyle people live. I was insinuating that increasing risky behaviour in addition to the hormones/chemicals surrounding our environment throws off the scales.

[Sip]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Yes I am often very touched and inspired by those select few disabled people that work their ass off and really do well. So I am glad we settled that question regarding religion and atheism.

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Religion and Atheism

This would be a fine belief if humans were the only species that had homosexuals as well as males and females. But there are many other high level mammals where we have many documented cases of homosexuality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior

Do you "believe" that those animals are also influenced after birth to be gay or is there perhaps biology at play there but not in humans?

Humans are the only mammals that can think, which means that they are the only ones that can make an informed decision, a conscious choice. No other mammal can do that, so the homosexual mammals you are referring to in the wiki link act on pure instincts, absolutely mindlessly and without any thought processes whatsoever! So, the answer to your question is “yes” these animals are also influenced after birth to be gay, they are influenced by their lack of mind while humans are influenced by the fact of having a mind.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

That's like comparing limes to pineapples. Like I said, there are gays everywhere and it is in fact biological.

So you're saying that there is a "gay" gene?

[Siggie]

Re: Religion and Atheism

Humans are the only mammals that can think, which means that they are the only ones that can make an informed decision, a conscious choice. No other mammal can do that, so the homosexual mammals you are referring to in the wiki link act on pure instincts, absolutely mindlessly and without any thought processes whatsoever! So, the answer to your question is “yes” these animals are also influenced after birth to be gay, they are influenced by their lack of mind while humans are influenced by the fact of having a mind.

This would all be fine and dandy if we could establish that it is in fact a choice among human beings. This is the assumption on which your argument rests. But again, as Sip has said already, this is a big departure from the topic. Perhaps we should turn back to it.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion and Atheism

This would all be fine and dandy if we could establish that it is in fact a choice among human beings. This is the assumption on which your argument rests. But again, as Sip has said already, this is a big departure from the topic. Perhaps we should turn back to it.

Are you claiming that people are "forced" to engage in perverted acts by some uncontrollable force?