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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Undermining the importance of trade routes is a big mistake. Georgia has greatly benefitted from being the center of such a route. There are plenty of antiarmenian elements in Georgia and if they continue or escalate we should definitely invade with Russia doing the same and establishing a common border. As Georgia cooperates with our enemies it enhances our isolation. Sure Russia did not preserve what is left of Armenia for the Armenians, it did it for Russia, but that does not change the fact that Armenia exists today because of Russia. I believe Russia wanted us to invade Georgia when it attacked them to protect the Cossacks. We would have had a common border and not worry about being encircled by azeri-turkish-georgian axis. Instead the Azeris would be xxxxting their pants even more. Now these three are running military drills together aimed at us. I see us making big mistakes and I see you guys arguing about all the wrong things. We need to take advantage of the rare opportunity that fate is providing us with. Russia and Iran are allies(this does not happen too often) and the Azeris are a thorn in their thigh. We should be the logical solution to remove such a thorn. Nuetralizing azeris and Georgians will bring security for Russia, Iran and Armenia along with control over important trade routes. We need to think big as our problems are big and need big solutions. This slow degradation of our nation is unacceptable. Living comfy lives in the diaspora and playing armchair quarterback does no good for Armenia. Even when the genocide was already happening, our people were saying how crazy such accusations were against the turk. It is happening all over again the turk is turning islamofscist, our neighbors coluding with it against us as we sit here and vilify Russia instead. This sitting and waiting would have been fine if we were growing and developing but Armenia is not growing, she is being emptied. We need to change this!
    Hayastan or Bust.

    Comment


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Originally posted by londontsi View Post
      It is very sad when our youth do not know our history.

      I would not blame them but blame the older generation who are ignorant of our history to pass on to our youth.

      It is important to understand the meaning of an independant state.

      Armenia from November 1920 until September 21, 1991 was as independent as California is now or Florida in relation to the country of USA.

      If you are refering to the first republic declared 28th of May 1918 it was not the Russians who gave us independance.
      Haven't you heard of Sardarapat, Bash Aparan, Garakilisa etc.

      Maybe I should blame the youth as well, since its all available at your fingertips through Google unlike 25- 30 years ago.

      .
      lol at you and your older generation if you think countries are created or destroyed by men who fighting fisycally against enemy soldiers
      Armenian Military Portal

      Comment


      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
        Undermining the importance of trade routes is a big mistake. Georgia has greatly benefitted from being the center of such a route. There are plenty of antiarmenian elements in Georgia and if they continue or escalate we should definitely invade with Russia doing the same and establishing a common border. As Georgia cooperates with our enemies it enhances our isolation. Sure Russia did not preserve what is left of Armenia for the Armenians, it did it for Russia, but that does not change the fact that Armenia exists today because of Russia. I believe Russia wanted us to invade Georgia when it attacked them to protect the Cossacks. We would have had a common border and not worry about being encircled by azeri-turkish-georgian axis. Instead the Azeris would be xxxxting their pants even more. Now these three are running military drills together aimed at us. I see us making big mistakes and I see you guys arguing about all the wrong things. We need to take advantage of the rare opportunity that fate is providing us with. Russia and Iran are allies(this does not happen too often) and the Azeris are a thorn in their thigh. We should be the logical solution to remove such a thorn. Nuetralizing azeris and Georgians will bring security for Russia, Iran and Armenia along with control over important trade routes. We need to think big as our problems are big and need big solutions. This slow degradation of our nation is unacceptable. Living comfy lives in the diaspora and playing armchair quarterback does no good for Armenia. Even when the genocide was already happening, our people were saying how crazy such accusations were against the turk. It is happening all over again the turk is turning islamofscist, our neighbors coluding with it against us as we sit here and vilify Russia instead. This sitting and waiting would have been fine if we were growing and developing but Armenia is not growing, she is being emptied. We need to change this!
        Sure Russia did not preserve what is left of Armenia for the Armenians, it did it for Russia, but that does not change the fact that Armenia exists today because of Russia.
        Read carefully what you have written.
        You are contradicting yourself.
        You are implying which I agree with, Russia did not intend to have an independant Armenia.
        Also it had no choice in the matter.

        Russia is not content with the new status in the south caucuses.
        It regards this region important to cover its southern flank.

        The only way to achieve that is through dominating the region.
        It considers the Armenian state most pliable towards its aims.
        The various treaties specially recently show that.
        Both militarily as well as economically.

        Georgia and Azerbaijan are in a stronger position to resist Russian domination.
        Thanks to their new established friends.

        Always remember it is not possible to be both under control and independent at the same time.
        Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
        Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
        Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

        Comment


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Originally posted by HyeFighter2 View Post
          lol at you and your older generation if you think countries are created or destroyed by men who fighting fisycally against enemy soldiers
          Have you heard of
          Cyprus,
          Vietnam,
          Korea,
          Syria,
          Iraq,
          Yemen,
          Somalia,
          Ethiopia,
          Libya,
          Congo,
          Angola,
          Mozambique,
          Western Sahara,
          Pakistan/Bangladesh

          I could go on and mention all countries who fough for independance also.

          All in my lifetime.

          No doubt I have missed at least half a dozon
          .
          Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
          Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
          Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

          Comment


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              We have another traitor!!

              Aram Karapetyan: 'Karabakh must be a part of Azerbaijan' (Yet another Armenian activist joins peace platform)

              BY VAHAN MARTIROSYAN, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (Correction: Special Traitor)

              Yesterday, one of Euromaidan activists, well-known Armenian human rights activist Aram Karapetyan, who participated in the Revolution of Dignity, expressed his support for the Baku Declaration on the Armenian-Azerbaijani peace initiative.

              Karapetyan visited Azeri Daily's Ukrainian Bureau, signed the Baku Declaration on the establishment of a platform, in which the representatives of Armenia and Azerbaijan spoke in favour of the resolution of the Karabakh problem within the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Karapetyan expressed confidence that the main obstacle to reconciliation between the two peoples and overcoming the consequences of the Karabakh war is the occupation policy of the political regime of Serzh Sargsyan.

              Karapetyan called on the presidents of Azerbaijan and Armenia to settle the Karabakh conflict as soon as possible and establish peace and stability in the region.

              Aram Karapetyan is a representative of the new generation of the Armenian people. He, like thousands of other Armenians, who rethought the consequences of the Karabakh conflict, wants peace in his homeland. Karapetyan, like thousands of Armenians, had to leave Armenia, because he was convinced that Sargsyan's regime brought the country to a political bankruptcy and poverty.

              Karapetyan participated actively in the Revolution of Dignity in Ukraine, was in the forefront of the Euromaidan. Today he craves change and revolution for his own native country.

              We bring to your attention the interview of Azeri Daily with Aram Karapetyan.

              Q. Why have you decided to support the Baku platform, and what do you know about it?

              A. Initially, I've learned of the Baku platform from the publications in the media; if I remember correctly, it was about a month ago, and then both the Ukrainians, and the Armenians here began to talk about it. Its ideas immediately attracted me, and not just because I am an Armenian and have always taken an active civil position, but also because my father was born and raised in Shusha, and since early childhood I remember his suffering because of the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh.

              So, I was very happy to learn that for the first time during this long-standing and, in my opinion, completely senseless conflict, real steps for reconciliation were being taken. That's why I responded to the call to join the Baku Declaration 'Platform for peace between Armenia and Azerbaijan' to all people of good will, regardless of nationality, but first and foremost, of course, the citizens of the conflicting parties. I hope to make a modest contribution to the cause of reconciliation between the two peoples, which had once been tied by a strong friendship, and which, I am sure, will revive very, very soon.

              I am referring to peace and harmony between Armenians and Azerbaijanis in the Caucasus, because outside of the Caucasus there was never enmity between us. For example, in Ukraine, where I live, I have a lot of friends, both Armenians and Azerbaijanis. I remember how the Azerbaijani activists shoulder to shoulder with us fought on the Maidan. Moreover, many Azerbaijanis participated in the march in memory of our friend Sergei Nigoyan who died during the Kyiv events.

              Q. You recalled the Maidan, and yet in the last few years many predicted Maidan in Armenia, but it never happened. Why, do you think, in our common homeland was the illegitimate regime of Sargsyan able to gain a firm foothold?

              A. Indeed, there was a lot of such predictions, a year and a half ago the Armenian people actually did rebel against the predatory increase of utility tariffs. Well, the whole Ukraine spoke about what happened in Yerevan this year. I mean the armed seizure of a police regiment headquarters. And yet the revolution did not happen, and it is, so to speak, 'merit' of the authorities.

              Unfortunately, when there was the Electromaidan, and this year too, the insurgent people succumbed to the manipulations of the opposition figureheads, which have been brought up by the authorities themselves. Generally, in Armenia, as I understand it, there has been developed a kind of lightning implantation of such provocateur figures in any process non-controlled by the government that could threaten its overthrow. And this scheme actually operates without misfires.

              Q. And how to deal with it?

              A. It is very difficult, practically impossible. In Ukraine it was possible, but the situation here was quite different. We felt the support of the US and Europe. One of the outcomes of the Maidan was the lustration. In Armenia we also need lustration, but hardly anyone in the country will be able to achieve it. It is clear that the authorities will not allow it.

              This should be done from the outside, from the Diaspora. By the way, I know that in recent years the Armenian Diaspora has become very active in the struggle with the regime of Sargsyan, and this is a good news. Unfortunately, in this regard, we have no such tendencies among the Ukrainian Armenians, but hopefully with time in Ukraine there will be formed a community, which will be able to influence the processes for the benefit of our country.

              Q. Tell me when were you the last time in Armenia, and what impression have you got about the situation there?

              A. I visited Yerevan two years ago, visited it with my family before that too. We also visited Leninakan (now Gyumri - Ed.); my mom was born there. Well, what impression... It's a shame, very sad and painful that country, which I knew in Soviet times as flourishing, prosperous, has been brought to extreme poverty. What I saw in Yerevan, it was like a beautiful, multi-coloured balloon. The attractiveness of the balloon applies only to the centre of Yerevan, where there are some reflections of a normal, decent life. However as you move away from the centre, not to mention outside of the capital, as the balloon suddenly bursts, and you realise that what has been built in the centre, clubs, hotels, etc, is just a shop window, designed to throw dust in the eyes of visitors.

              A friend of my mother lives in Yerevan district called Charbakh, if I am not mistaken. The misery and devastation that I saw there, it is impossible to convey in words. There was a feeling that it was some sort of almost a concentration camp. And in Leninakan, it was generally a nightmare, so many homeless and people living in trailers I've never seen anywhere, never heard of something like that. Moreover, there I saw officials and some criminals, who travelled in expensive cars, built their luxurious mansions that are unseen even in Ukraine, a country with 50 million people. Naturally, all the Armenian oligarchs have that at the expense of ordinary people. That is why the country is in general poverty.

              Q. Let's go back to the Karabakh problem. When and, most importantly, how will this conflict be resolved, in your opinion?

              A. You know, my father had a lot of friends left in Shusha, I am myself here a friends with a guy, who a few years ago came from Stepanakert (Khankendi - Ed.). Therefore, I know that the situation there is much worse than in Armenia itself. Armenians are fleeing from there and run not so much because of the war is very close, but because they can't earn their living.

              This guy from Stepanakert, for example, told me that there was absolutely impossible to find a job. It's impossible to get any, even a porter or handyman. And of course, the cause of all this is the conflict itself. For its settlement, in the first place, it is necessary to seek the origins: how it started, or rather, who started it. After all, it flared up almost overnight and it was during the Soviet Union's collapse. So, I think that the conflict can be eliminated only by the will of the two peoples. We must renounce the intermediaries and try to sit at the negotiating table by ourselves.

              You are doing this now at the level of NGOs or civil society, and I'm talking about the heads of state. I understand, of course, that Sargsyan's masters will unlikely let him make such a move, but , as they say, there are other fish in the sea. As I see by the situation, he will be there not for long. I hope that those who come in his place, will not be, like Sargsyan, a puppet in the hands of the Kremlin, and only under this condition can there be a normal and fast result in resolving the Karabakh conflict.

              As you know, most of the lands that came under the control of Armenia for many years have been completely unused. Armenia can't, and most likely doesn't want to raise them to build something there or to use somehow. A reasonable question arises: why do you hold them so persistently, even at the cost of the deaths of soldiers?

              Q. And finally, a question traditional for these days: what would you wish our compatriots on the New Year's eve?

              A. You know, every time I come to Yerevan or meet here the Armenians, who just came from there, I notice a sad pattern: there are no smiles on their faces, everyone is sad. Regardless of what they are doing at the moment, working or just relaxing somewhere in a cafe, there is a sadness in their eyes. So, I heartily wish that on the faces of the Armenians there finally will appear the so cherished smiles, which would say that they are all okay.

              Q. We thank you for answering our questions, and most importantly for making the courageous step and joining our peace-making platform.

              http://azeridaily.com/reality/24984

              Comment


              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by armnuke View Post
                We have another traitor!!

                Aram Karapetyan: 'Karabakh must be a part of Azerbaijan' (Yet another Armenian activist joins peace platform)

                BY VAHAN MARTIROSYAN, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (Correction: Special Traitor)

                Yesterday, one of Euromaidan activists, well-known Armenian human rights activist Aram Karapetyan, who participated in the Revolution of Dignity, expressed his support for the Baku Declaration on the Armenian-Azerbaijani peace initiative.

                Karapetyan visited Azeri Daily's Ukrainian Bureau, signed the Baku Declaration on the establishment of a platform, in which the representatives of Armenia and Azerbaijan spoke in favour of the resolution of the Karabakh problem within the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan. Karapetyan expressed confidence that the main obstacle to reconciliation between the two peoples and overcoming the consequences of the Karabakh war is the occupation policy of the political regime of Serzh Sargsyan.

                Karapetyan called on the presidents of Azerbaijan and Armenia to settle the Karabakh conflict as soon as possible and establish peace and stability in the region.

                Aram Karapetyan is a representative of the new generation of the Armenian people. He, like thousands of other Armenians, who rethought the consequences of the Karabakh conflict, wants peace in his homeland. Karapetyan, like thousands of Armenians, had to leave Armenia, because he was convinced that Sargsyan's regime brought the country to a political bankruptcy and poverty.

                Karapetyan participated actively in the Revolution of Dignity in Ukraine, was in the forefront of the Euromaidan. Today he craves change and revolution for his own native country.

                We bring to your attention the interview of Azeri Daily with Aram Karapetyan.

                Q. Why have you decided to support the Baku platform, and what do you know about it?

                A. Initially, I've learned of the Baku platform from the publications in the media; if I remember correctly, it was about a month ago, and then both the Ukrainians, and the Armenians here began to talk about it. Its ideas immediately attracted me, and not just because I am an Armenian and have always taken an active civil position, but also because my father was born and raised in Shusha, and since early childhood I remember his suffering because of the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh.

                So, I was very happy to learn that for the first time during this long-standing and, in my opinion, completely senseless conflict, real steps for reconciliation were being taken. That's why I responded to the call to join the Baku Declaration 'Platform for peace between Armenia and Azerbaijan' to all people of good will, regardless of nationality, but first and foremost, of course, the citizens of the conflicting parties. I hope to make a modest contribution to the cause of reconciliation between the two peoples, which had once been tied by a strong friendship, and which, I am sure, will revive very, very soon.

                I am referring to peace and harmony between Armenians and Azerbaijanis in the Caucasus, because outside of the Caucasus there was never enmity between us. For example, in Ukraine, where I live, I have a lot of friends, both Armenians and Azerbaijanis. I remember how the Azerbaijani activists shoulder to shoulder with us fought on the Maidan. Moreover, many Azerbaijanis participated in the march in memory of our friend Sergei Nigoyan who died during the Kyiv events.

                Q. You recalled the Maidan, and yet in the last few years many predicted Maidan in Armenia, but it never happened. Why, do you think, in our common homeland was the illegitimate regime of Sargsyan able to gain a firm foothold?

                A. Indeed, there was a lot of such predictions, a year and a half ago the Armenian people actually did rebel against the predatory increase of utility tariffs. Well, the whole Ukraine spoke about what happened in Yerevan this year. I mean the armed seizure of a police regiment headquarters. And yet the revolution did not happen, and it is, so to speak, 'merit' of the authorities.

                Unfortunately, when there was the Electromaidan, and this year too, the insurgent people succumbed to the manipulations of the opposition figureheads, which have been brought up by the authorities themselves. Generally, in Armenia, as I understand it, there has been developed a kind of lightning implantation of such provocateur figures in any process non-controlled by the government that could threaten its overthrow. And this scheme actually operates without misfires.

                Q. And how to deal with it?

                A. It is very difficult, practically impossible. In Ukraine it was possible, but the situation here was quite different. We felt the support of the US and Europe. One of the outcomes of the Maidan was the lustration. In Armenia we also need lustration, but hardly anyone in the country will be able to achieve it. It is clear that the authorities will not allow it.

                This should be done from the outside, from the Diaspora. By the way, I know that in recent years the Armenian Diaspora has become very active in the struggle with the regime of Sargsyan, and this is a good news. Unfortunately, in this regard, we have no such tendencies among the Ukrainian Armenians, but hopefully with time in Ukraine there will be formed a community, which will be able to influence the processes for the benefit of our country.

                Q. Tell me when were you the last time in Armenia, and what impression have you got about the situation there?

                A. I visited Yerevan two years ago, visited it with my family before that too. We also visited Leninakan (now Gyumri - Ed.); my mom was born there. Well, what impression... It's a shame, very sad and painful that country, which I knew in Soviet times as flourishing, prosperous, has been brought to extreme poverty. What I saw in Yerevan, it was like a beautiful, multi-coloured balloon. The attractiveness of the balloon applies only to the centre of Yerevan, where there are some reflections of a normal, decent life. However as you move away from the centre, not to mention outside of the capital, as the balloon suddenly bursts, and you realise that what has been built in the centre, clubs, hotels, etc, is just a shop window, designed to throw dust in the eyes of visitors.

                A friend of my mother lives in Yerevan district called Charbakh, if I am not mistaken. The misery and devastation that I saw there, it is impossible to convey in words. There was a feeling that it was some sort of almost a concentration camp. And in Leninakan, it was generally a nightmare, so many homeless and people living in trailers I've never seen anywhere, never heard of something like that. Moreover, there I saw officials and some criminals, who travelled in expensive cars, built their luxurious mansions that are unseen even in Ukraine, a country with 50 million people. Naturally, all the Armenian oligarchs have that at the expense of ordinary people. That is why the country is in general poverty.

                Q. Let's go back to the Karabakh problem. When and, most importantly, how will this conflict be resolved, in your opinion?

                A. You know, my father had a lot of friends left in Shusha, I am myself here a friends with a guy, who a few years ago came from Stepanakert (Khankendi - Ed.). Therefore, I know that the situation there is much worse than in Armenia itself. Armenians are fleeing from there and run not so much because of the war is very close, but because they can't earn their living.

                This guy from Stepanakert, for example, told me that there was absolutely impossible to find a job. It's impossible to get any, even a porter or handyman. And of course, the cause of all this is the conflict itself. For its settlement, in the first place, it is necessary to seek the origins: how it started, or rather, who started it. After all, it flared up almost overnight and it was during the Soviet Union's collapse. So, I think that the conflict can be eliminated only by the will of the two peoples. We must renounce the intermediaries and try to sit at the negotiating table by ourselves.

                You are doing this now at the level of NGOs or civil society, and I'm talking about the heads of state. I understand, of course, that Sargsyan's masters will unlikely let him make such a move, but , as they say, there are other fish in the sea. As I see by the situation, he will be there not for long. I hope that those who come in his place, will not be, like Sargsyan, a puppet in the hands of the Kremlin, and only under this condition can there be a normal and fast result in resolving the Karabakh conflict.

                As you know, most of the lands that came under the control of Armenia for many years have been completely unused. Armenia can't, and most likely doesn't want to raise them to build something there or to use somehow. A reasonable question arises: why do you hold them so persistently, even at the cost of the deaths of soldiers?

                Q. And finally, a question traditional for these days: what would you wish our compatriots on the New Year's eve?

                A. You know, every time I come to Yerevan or meet here the Armenians, who just came from there, I notice a sad pattern: there are no smiles on their faces, everyone is sad. Regardless of what they are doing at the moment, working or just relaxing somewhere in a cafe, there is a sadness in their eyes. So, I heartily wish that on the faces of the Armenians there finally will appear the so cherished smiles, which would say that they are all okay.

                Q. We thank you for answering our questions, and most importantly for making the courageous step and joining our peace-making platform.

                http://azeridaily.com/reality/24984
                This is a very common mistake that a lot of people make. See, if we returned Karabakh to Azerbaijan (good luck with that lol), the azeris wont just shut up and magically go away, they will look for another reason to cry about Armenia and will want more land. They have the same mentality as turks, they believe in having only turkic land.

                Comment


                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Originally posted by Ak105 View Post
                  This is a very common mistake that a lot of people make. See, if we returned Karabakh to Azerbaijan (good luck with that lol), the azeris wont just shut up and magically go away, they will look for another reason to cry about Armenia and will want more land. They have the same mentality as turks, they believe in having only turkic land.
                  What you said is true.
                  But at this moment we're dealing with something deeper.
                  Those "Armenian activists" who are anti-Russian are going pro-Azeri, because Azerbaijan feels that Russia is keeping NKR under Armenian control.
                  This is plan D right now. After Azeris found out they can't take NKR by military means or negotiations, they started this campaign.
                  There is an open war on Sarkisyan to show how bad of a President he is (Yes he has volnurabilities like any politician and these groups are focusing on)
                  There's low economic growth in Armenia due to the blockade imposed by Turkey since 1993. Not only we don't have access to sea, 2 of our 4 bordering countries have shut their borders on us. I see non of these "activists" point out to that.
                  They tried to start their "Maydan" through the Electric Yerevan protests, it failed.
                  They tried to start another "Maydan"last summer by brainwashing the public that Armenia is going to cede land under "Russian pressure", and that one failed too.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army





                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by armnuke View Post
                      Aram Karapetyan: 'Karabakh must be a part of Azerbaijan
                      Let him trow up till he turns green. He is nobody. In facts, it works best for us to have some idiots to appease the desperate sultan and his useless followers.

                      "les chiens aboient la caravane passe" = dogs bark but the caravan moves.

                      Comment

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