Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

They cherish and gloat in the English language websites too until I show up.....it normally takes me few posts to get the real Turk out the "civilized Turk".

BTW I don't agree with you in regards to Shah Abbas....The Armenians would have been slaughtered by advancing Turks no matter how you slice the betrays of the time.

Iranians are one of our best allies and ancient friends.....it would be a strategic mistake to hold such grudges against them.

With all respect, Eddo. Keeping our hitory in mind does not necessarily mean to hold grudges. I'll be the ally of devil, if it suits my nation.
It is very important to know who did what to us. Knowing and accepting our past in turn will only make us alert, realistic, and show the true path to realization of our dreams.
The most disturbing thing for me is when someone tries to "enlighten" us without looking in history or facts, or pretends that it all does not make sence nowadays because there is a higher or better truth then what our past tells us.

[Artashes]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Concerning above post --- you missed the point of my comment. Wasn't meant as the chosen idea.
Your economic evaluation is yours and -- not -- the only way.
To be troubled that Armenia's army is larger than our enemy's is true nonsense, even unbelievable.
To think its reasonable to have an army large enough to deal with both turks at once is a sound thought, and your degrading comments have no merit or soundness in my opinion.
The financially motivated world powers and the geopolitical posturing they are doing is -- NOT -- the path of honesty or virtue.
To say the truth may not be financially profitable (but) it is the right thing to do.
Our complaint that millions of --- INOCENT --- people were murdered and murdered with a brutality that defies humanity is both ligitimate and obvious in its paramount definition.
This outrage cannot be minimalized for profit or exchanged for "national success" according to the prevailing idea of success that the world powers are pushing.
Your negative expression of Armenia's army being larger than the brutal little turks is truly pathetic.
Artashes

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

@Artashes,

"Your economic evaluation is yours"...oh I'm sorry, did you think that Armenia has a successful economy?

You don't have to lecture me about the Genocide. But using it as an excuse to militarize Armenia at the expense of its economy is doing our nation a disservice.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[QUOTE=davidoga;338634]

Originally Posted by Hakob
Armenian republic needs to have 3Mln strong army.

Absolute meathead, juvenile BS. I seriously hope you were kidding about this sentiment. Armenia would collapse in an instant.



So you are so smart that cannot even anderstand the connection of 3Mln population and 3Mln amy? LOL.
Let me ask you, How strong of an economy and how democratic president Armenia needs to have to build lets say a fleet of stealth bombers.
How about aircraft carriers?
How soon can we have such an economy? I am all for it.
Would you like us to dump all the weapons we have and wait for the powerfull economy to provide it to us?
So understanding who the toorks are is not important. Military buildup too. Patriotic expressions just bull...
Not believing that Sargsian is a criminal, naive.
But aren't they all connected? All working at the same time? Inscluding better economy.
Seriosely I am not jocking. Any improvement in our economy is one of the most welcome news.
But there is no one answer surer than how we think.
Last, a note, actually the most powerfull economies in world are the ones in deepest debt today.

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[QUOTE=Hakob;338638]

Originally Posted by Hakob
Armenian republic needs to have 3Mln strong army.

Absolute meathead, juvenile BS. I seriously hope you were kidding about this sentiment. Armenia would collapse in an instant.



So you are so smart that cannot even anderstand the connection of 3Mln population and 3Mln amy? LOL.
Let me ask you, How strong of an economy and how democratic president Armenia needs to have to build lets say a fleet of stealth bombers.
How about aircraft carriers?
How soon can we have such an economy? I am all for it.
Would you like us to dump all the weapons we have and wait for the powerfull economy to provide it to us?
So understanding who the toorks are is not important. Military buildup too. Patriotic expressions just bull...
Not believing that Sargsian is a criminal, naive.
But aren't they all connected? All working at the same time? Inscluding better economy.
Seriosely I am not jocking. Any improvement in our economy is one of the most welcome news.
But there is no one answer surer than how we think.
Last, a note, actually the most powerfull economies in world are the ones in deepest debt today.

What? I understand the connection. That's why I said it is stupid. Armenia would be deprived of its economically-productive population.

I don't know how soon. But it has to start from the top; there needs to be a president that puts national interests above his. With this will come rule of law, but before that there needs to be serious changes in tax code (so that tax evasion becomes simply too inconvenient), a multitude of anti-trust stipulations (so that we don't have large monopoly's that set significant barriers to entry), and more flexible lines of credit (so that Armenians may have the possibility to start their own business). Think of Germany in the 1930s: their economic growth was borderline unbelievable and, whats more, it arose from nothing!

"Most powerful economies in the world are ones in deepest debt today"...is that so? Germany, France, Japan, Turkey, South Korea are all not struggling with significant debt, yet they have respectable armies. Debt in US and some EU states arose because of mismanaged Social Security and welfare systems, which is unrelated.

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Sheer stupidity. "If one million of us dusted 7 hominoids"...wtf does that mean

It means no matter who says what, yours will always be smaller! So stop trying to compensate for your small wee wee, you are not the only J ew with a small Pee Pee! Please stop making a scene of it...LOL

And the toorks can come any time, what are they going to do? They know very well that they just can't take the men away so easy! Sorry we will never again listen to a toork like we once did! They are ready? Only they are ready! ...LOL

They are more scared then you!

[haydavid]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Turks were? Why don't you be realistic enough to say that "turks still are".
I would be happy, if I deserved to be treated not as a sacrifice lamb by world, but somebody that can raise his hand because of self respect.
Go see Vardan Petrosian's monolog about people like you, that pop up in our history whenever turks let us breathe a bit and sing the same lulaby that "turks are humans too, lets be cyvilized, they are diffrent now". Ill ask the same question that he asks, "How is turk diffren now" Գյա, թուրքի ուրիշը վերնի?... How is the turk now diffrent than his ancestors, or his grandfathers in 1915? Doesn't he train safarovs? doesn't he blockade us and chock our economy? Doesn't he cause us to flee our homeland? isn't he ready now to bomb our towns to oblivion? Isn't he waigting for the right moment to jump and start cutting our women and children now?
Unlike most of you, I can speak turkish because of my grandparents and time to time I see the proof in their conversations in chatrooms and posts that they are the same allways. They cherish and gloat in who they are.
What change? What cyvilization?
I hope that any of you guys blaming ourselfs or our government for everything bad can see far enough and notice that the root cause of all our misfortunes is turk's desire to rob us of our land. That is a historic fact, and I don't see any change of how things were and are now.
We just got used to the victim mentality and blame ourselfs, that we are not smart enough, not unified, not humane to each other, not modern, not european enough, not democratic, too asiatic, shovinist male, uncyvilised bla bla bla...
But we fail to notice that it is all because the turk made us loose the trust in ourselfs. We lost our ability to defend who we are in ourselfs. Thrown to the four corners of this world we look at others and stop thinking of who we have to be to survive on our land.
We think that if we dream enough about humanity, we can turn us and our neighbors into equal people. Free and prosperous and just.
Bull...
Natures law. Any being in the grip of it's hunter either has to run fast and flee or turn around and bite the neck of pursuer.

Wow , you are ultra-nationalist !
What differate you from the turks now ? You have the same speach their ultra-nationalists have and their grand-parents had .
Naturally turks have not changed much in their way of thinking and acting but Armenians did. Not all our problems come from the turks , but from us too ! We ( or better said our leaders) made very bad decisions in the time and turks taked adventage of it .
We can't blame the turk for EVERYTHING , yes they did the most horrible things ( my family are survivors of the genocide ) but not all Armenians are prosperous and just like you said.
I know that when you listen to turkish conversations you can hear that they say bad things about Armenians but what do you want ? Their media is controlled , they learn in their schools that Armenians are bad people , tey hear everyday and everywhere that Armenians are terrorist.
THEY are brainwashed ! We shouldn't balme their PEOPLE but their leaders.

What a defeatist attitude. Yes, you are right about Turkish antagonism, but we cannot control their actions. We can only control ours. If you, Hakob, kills a Turk like you mentioned, what does Armenia gain? Nothing. The blockade is outside of Armenian control. It's time to say "OK, these are the restrictions, how do we surmount them" instead of complaining.

Change has to come from within.

That's what I said. You can kill as many turks as you want , you can do as many things as you want , you can close the borders for ever and be in war for them for ever but the first who will loos are not the turks but WE and the ones who live in Armenia now !
It's egoist to think that it's a good thing that the border is closed . Think at all the good things it can bring to Armenians who live in Armenia and can't afford some food !

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=43528

Turkey's clemency request condemned

Different political, social and cultural organisations on Friday strongly condemned the Turkish president for requesting clemency to war criminals.

They demanded quick completion of ongoing trials of the crimes against humanity committed during the country’s Liberation War in 1971.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul reportedly in a letter recently requested President Zillur Rahman to give "clemency" to the accused under trial in the International Crimes Tribunals for the "sake of peace in the society".

President of Ekattorer Ghatak Dalal Nirmul Committee Justice (retd) Muhammad Ghulam Rabbani, its president in charge Shahriar Kabir and general secretary Kazi Mukul made the demand in a joint press statement.

They said Turkish president’s request not to sentence Ghulam Azam, former ameer of Jamaat-e Islami, for committing the crimes against humanity is not only against the diplomatic norms and interference in the internal affairs of Bangladesh, but also a blow to its independence and sovereignty.

The judicial system of every country is independent and sovereign and no country can make any comment on the judicial system of other, they said.

The comment of the Turkish president about the case against Ghulam Azam before delivery of its verdict is similar to taking a side on behalf of the people, who had committed genocides in 1971, and to express no confidence in the court, which is very condemnable, the statement said.

The Turkish president should remember that Turkey had committed the first genocide in the world in the last century, they said, adding that Turkey had killed 15 lakh of Armenians from 1919 to 1921, but no trial was held for the killings.

Turkey is still killing Kurdish people without any trial, the statement said.

The Nirmul committee leaders urged the government to strongly protest if any country like Turkey makes any statement against the independent judicial system of Bangladesh or its sovereignty and dignity.

Kamal Lohani, president of Bangladesh Udichi Shilpigosthi, and its general secretary Prabir Sardar in a statement said that conspiracies to foil the ongoing trial of the 1971 crimes against humanity were going on at home and abroad.

The Turkish president’s request is a shameless expression of that conspiracy, they said.

The Udichi leaders strongly condemned and protested the Turkish president and demanded Bangladesh government take appropriate and hard diplomatic steps to this end.

[Odysseus]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This is good, even though we have varying and opposing views. Its ok to disagree, If you spent of your time only talking to people you agreed with, you would never develop past that one track mind. I dont expect, or even want to change your minds, but I do want us to be open to alternate, even opposing views. I believe that a majority of Armenians' problems come from Armenians themselves, so if I can help contribute to the soup of ideas I feel that I might help improve the situation. I dont see how killing Turks or Azeris will help Armenians, in fact I can see more good coming to Armenians by specific Armenians being thrown in jail rather than spilling Turkish and Azeri blood. But again, If I want to be heard, i should at least listen to others, like Hakob. I do find some of the things he says to be very agreeable, such as Armenia being under the Russian Empire helped preserve Armenia.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This is good, even though we have varying and opposing views. Its ok to disagree, If you spent of your time only talking to people you agreed with, you would never develop past that one track mind. I dont expect, or even want to change your minds, but I do want us to be open to alternate, even opposing views. I believe that a majority of Armenians' problems come from Armenians themselves, so if I can help contribute to the soup of ideas I feel that I might help improve the situation. I dont see how killing Turks or Azeris will help Armenians, in fact I can see more good coming to Armenians by specific Armenians being thrown in jail rather than spilling Turkish and Azeri blood. But again, If I want to be heard, i should at least listen to others, like Hakob. I do find some of the things he says to be very agreeable, such as Armenia being under the Russian Empire helped preserve Armenia.

So you would have liked to throw Monte Melkonyan, Akady Ter-Tadevosyan, Karo kehkejian, Jirair Sefilian, Vazgen Sargsian, Samvel Babaian, Hambik Sasunian and many others thrown in jail ha?
Are you working with turkish government yet?
Odysseus, are you Armenian? seriosely just say the thruth. Do you feel like one? If you are a turk what are you doing here?