Iranian-Armenian relations

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You can go to prison in few European countries for denying the armenian genocide. In Netherlands there is a joint push by Armenian and Israeli lobby groups to get it passed there as well.

Holocaust is not some event that took place 200 years ago. There is clear tangible evidence what happened during Holocaust, what happened is not based off of what some J3ws are telling. So what are you trying to say? That it was not a Genocide, but "mass killings"? Sure let's debate if sky is blue or not. Wow you sound so much like the Turkish genocide deniers.

You really believe the J3ws were special and were the sole targets during WWII? You believe that SIX MILLION were systematically led into ovens or gas chambers? Even J3ws don't believe the whole story. The Zionists wanted to populate their soon to be state with the J3ws in Europe. Many that died were no different than any of the other people which died due to the brutality of war. Cremating dead people infected with fatal diseases to avoid infecting the living is normal practice during war times. Sure many J3ws suffered and so did many other people, especially in Poland. Also have to take into account that it was the Zionist supporters outside of Germany that declared war on the Nazi regime starting with an economic boycott of German goods. I don't deny that many J3ws died, however J3ws aren't a nationality or a race of people. I can convert to Judaism but that doesn't change the fact that I'm Armenian.

I really don't understand your stand on Iran, it's the first I've ever heard from an Armenian viewpoint.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You really believe the J3ws were special and were the sole targets during WWII? You believe that SIX MILLION were systematically led into ovens or gas chambers? Even J3ws don't believe the whole story. The Zionists wanted to populate their soon to be state with the J3ws in Europe. Many that died were no different than any of the other people which died due to the brutality of war. Cremating dead people infected with fatal diseases to avoid infecting the living is normal practice during war times. Sure many J3ws suffered and so did many other people, especially in Poland. Also have to take into account that it was the Zionist supporters outside of Germany that declared war on the Nazi regime starting with an economic boycott of German goods. I don't deny that many J3ws died, however J3ws aren't a nationality or a race of people. I can convert to Judaism but that doesn't change the fact that I'm Armenian.

I really don't understand your stand on Iran, it's the first I've ever heard from an Armenian viewpoint.

J3ws along with gypsies, homosexuals, invalids were all targeted. It was a state wide orchestrated plan to exterminate J3ws. Being exterminated specifically is different from dying as result of collateral damage because of war. Turks say that Armenians died because of the war not because of organised Genocide. J3ws are a ethnoreligious group. Regarding being a J3w, it's not as easy as you put it - it's a rather complex and disputed issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_xxx%3F. (Search "Who is a J3w?" in wikipedia - seriously what's with blocking the word "j3w" here?)

But you didn't answer my question, do you believe the J3wish Holocaust constituted Genocide or not? (or it's a myth made up by the evil Zionists that are after all the armenians )

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

But you didn't answer my question, do you believe the J3wish Holocaust constituted Genocide or not? (or it's a myth made up by the evil Zionists that are after all the armenians )

Do you believe that the Genocide convention would exist if it weren't for J3ws making it law? Rather, does any political force have the ability to determine what is and what isn't Genocide without the approval of the J3wish lobby?

…any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, such as:

* (a) Killing members of the group;
* (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
* (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
* (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Now apply the above conditions to any war situation and a Genocide is committed to a certain degree in any event of a war.

However, if you dig further into the true intention of Genocide, what applies to Armenians is:

"Genocide has two phases: one, destruction of the national pattern of the oppressed group; the other, the imposition of the national pattern of the oppressor. This imposition, in turn, may be made upon the oppressed population which is allowed to remain or upon the territory alone, after removal of the population and the colonization by the oppressor's own nationals."

Armenians were disposed of so their lands and property could be colonized by the Turks and Kurds so Armenian history in the region could be erased.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Do you believe that the Genocide convention would exist if it weren't for J3ws making it law? Rather, does any political force have the ability to determine what is and what isn't Genocide without the approval of the J3wish lobby?

…any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, such as:

* (a) Killing members of the group;
* (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
* (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
* (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Now apply the above conditions to any war situation and a Genocide is committed to a certain degree in any event of a war.

However, if you dig further into the true intention of Genocide, what applies to Armenians is:

"Genocide has two phases: one, destruction of the national pattern of the oppressed group; the other, the imposition of the national pattern of the oppressor. This imposition, in turn, may be made upon the oppressed population which is allowed to remain or upon the territory alone, after removal of the population and the colonization by the oppressor's own nationals."

Armenians were disposed of so their lands and property could be colonized by the Turks and Kurds so Armenian history in the region could be erased.

You are playing becoming a bit paranoid with this j3wish lobby stuff.

Genocide is a label given and rather confirmed by a wide range of scholars from academia. It's a consensus reached more than anything. That was done for Armenian Genocide and yes there were israeli and j3wish scholars who fully support the consensus. Genocide in its most basic defintion is:

The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of an entire national, racial, religious, or ethnic group.

and that is fully what happened to the J3ws by the Nazis.

And you still haven't answered my question, did the J3wish Holocaust constitute Genocide in the basic definition of the term?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

And you still haven't answered my question, did the J3wish Holocaust constitute Genocide in the basic definition of the term?

No, it constituted as a Holocaust, a specific and special form of Genocide that only applies to the events of WW2.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

if Iran is such a great ally of Armenia why hasn't it recognized the Armenian genocide yet?
How can someone claim that Iran is a better ally or that we as a people (Hayer) have much more in common with them than Russians?
Every one here knows that I'm not anti-Iranian or anything but claims like some are making are are utter BS and are just delusional at best ignorant at worst.
It wasn't Iran that rushed to protect our borders from an invasion in 93 and it isn't Iranian soldiers protecting our borders today.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No, it constituted as a Holocaust, a specific and special form of Genocide that only applies to the events of WW2.

definition of Holocaust:

Holocaust The genocide of European xxxs and others by the Nazis during World War II:

So you agree it was genocide.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

if Iran is such a great ally of Armenia why hasn't it recognized the Armenian genocide yet?
How can someone claim that Iran is a better ally or that we as a people (Hayer) have much more in common with them than Russians?
Every one here knows that I'm not anti-Iranian or anything but claims like some are making are are utter BS and are just delusional at best ignorant at worst.
It wasn't Iran that rushed to protect our borders from an invasion in 93 and it isn't Iranian soldiers protecting our borders today.

Thank you, you must be one of the few non-Parskahye's here - as Parskahyes apparently have 2 allegiances, Armenia and Iran, and try to make it seem like all Armenians in the world are the brothers of Iranians. Our 2 people (armenians and persians) are friends but we are not brothers or cousins like some people suggest.


It doesn't recognise genocide because it doesn't want to ruin its strong economic relations with Turkey. Reminds me of a few other countries.

[Haykakan]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

There is no denying that there are xxxs who are not zionists, who are great human beings, who really do want the armenian genocide to be recognized but those individuals are few in comparison and they wield no power. A nation is judged by its actions and the actions of Isreal have been 100% antiarmenian from helping Turkey in the US legislature to selling advanced weapons to Azeris, they even built a barracade wall right through the Armenian quarter in jerusalem against the wishes of the Armenians. It is not like we want the xxxs to do anything for us nor do we really need their support but they are not neutral bystanders - they are actively involved in undermining Armenia and armenians. The few conciencioous xxxs who have the brains to see right from wrong and care enough to say or do somethin are exactly that - FEW. If you want to see how friendly the xxxs are to armenians then just look at the armenian population in jerusalem, it has almost completely vanished because of the intolorance of Isreal and this happened in a very short time whereas armenians have lived and thrived in iran for a millenium. Mos you are not looking at this situation for what it realy is. Just loo at government policies of Iran and Isreal twords Armenia and the armenians and all is clear. Making excuses is bs because plenty of countries have recognized the armenian genocide and after some sissyass pouting by turkey their good relations resumed thus Isreal has nothing to loose by recognizing the suffering of our people but they choose not to and they force other nations not to also. Iran may not have officialy recognized the genocide but never puts obsticals in our way, instead it builds roads and establishes airline flights to yerevan. My point is Isreal has options it does not have to help the Turk in denying the genocide yet it does. Perhaps as some have suggested it to has a dirty secret or two it does not want to be revieled. The humanity of a nation and its people is important to consider when choosing your friends. Iran has many ethnic groups in it who live togather peacfully whereas just look at what Isreal has done to the palastinians. If that is not enough for u Mos as u dismiss any notions of brotherhood then perhaps the genocidal commonalities between Turkey and Isreal might convince you of the vialness that is Isreal. Both Turkey and Isreal commited genicide and ethnic cleansing based on race and religion, both are notorious for flat out lies and distortions, both attack their neighborhs on a regular bases, the only tolorance in these countries is for fellow turcks and xxxs and no one else. Look at the facts then decide who is on whose side and who would make a better friend for our nation.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

if Iran is such a great ally of Armenia why hasn't it recognized the Armenian genocide yet?
How can someone claim that Iran is a better ally or that we as a people (Hayer) have much more in common with them than Russians?
Every one here knows that I'm not anti-Iranian or anything but claims like some are making are are utter BS and are just delusional at best ignorant at worst.
It wasn't Iran that rushed to protect our borders from an invasion in 93 and it isn't Iranian soldiers protecting our borders today.

This isn't a pissing match between Russia and Iran, they both make their own contributions to Armenia as regional neighbours.

Culturally, the Russian Orthodox identity was crippled under Bolshevik/Communist rule. Iran's current rulers might be nuts, but that hasn't effected Persian culture which in my opinion today has more in common with Armenian culture.

definition of Holocaust:

So you agree it was genocide.

Holocaust literally means a "burnt offering" as if implying that the J3ws that died during WW2 were some sort of sacrifice to the gods. Slightly different intention than the usage of the term Genocide.

Great post Haykakan.