Iranian-Armenian relations

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Parskahyes apparently have 2 allegiances, Armenia and Iran.

Seriously, if Monte was alive, he'd lick his hand, and then he'd slap you.

"In August 1995, Greece, Armenia, and Iran established a committee on trilateral cooperation in economic affairs. In December 1996, deputy foreign ministers from the three countries signed a memorandum of understanding on cooperation in economic, industrial, scientific, and technical fields. Since then, the three countries have held numerous committee and ministerial level meetings to establish established joint commissions on transport, postal service, telecommunications, tourism, industry, technology, economics , and energy. Initial press reports following Tsohatzopoulos' visit to Iran indicated that the defense pact would also include Armenia, making it a clear threat to Turkey." SOURCE: http://www.topix.com/forum/world/arm...JPBVRIVDE0B60M

I RECALL A HISTORICAL BASIS FOR THIS ALLIANCE: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...ersepolis-Iran

Azerbaijan's Worst Nightmare:
http://www.upi.com/enl-win/d15f375ef...ec3509695af87/
http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?116629-HK-in-Iran
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict....html?image=28

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

First off Israel never committed a genocide. It has done ethnic cleansing and done some bad things, but never it culminated in it being genocide.

How do you figure? Where did the Palestinian homeland go?

I know the policies of Israel, I don't deny them. However, just because our strategic interests collide does not mean we should become mortal enemies with them, like we are with Turks and Azeris. There is a difference in that. Just look at how rapidly the Israel-Turkey relations have changed, now anti-Israeli propaganda is rampant in Turkey and Israeli groups are helping Armenian groups pass a Armenian genocide criminalisation act in Holland. Strategic relations can change overnight - that's politics for you.

So basically you're saying we shouldn't be enemies with a genocidal state that accepts monies to create anti-Armenian policies because they will somehow be beneficial down the road due to their history of indecent acts towards Armenians within even their own borders. Why don't we all just hold hands in concentric circles so they can have an easier target to aim at. Makes sense.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

How do you figure? Where did the Palestinian homeland go?

Was there ethnic cleansing during the emergence of Israel? Sure there was. Was it done at times rather brutally? yes. But given all that, it doesn't constitute genocide like the that of the Armenians, J3ws, Cambodians, and so on.

So basically you're saying we shouldn't be enemies with a genocidal state that accepts monies to create anti-Armenian policies because they will somehow be beneficial down the road due to their history of indecent acts towards Armenians within even their own borders. Why don't we all just hold hands in concentric circles so they can have an easier target to aim at. Makes sense.

First off saying that a state is genocidal requires a state to have committed a genocide. Second off, as I've said giving weapons is a business. Israel's selling of weapons to Azerbaijan is of course terrible, but we shouldn't treat Israel like Turkey or Azerbaijan. There's just no comparison. Plus, we must understand that many countries including our closest ally supply Azerbaijan, and many countries try to be good with Turkey/Az because of their resources and strategic locations, including Iran which holds close relations with Turkey and holds good economic relations with Azerbaijan. If you were a external country would you choose Armenia or Turkey/Az as your close partners? When it comes to the j3wish lobby groups, that again stemmed from their country's alliance with Turkey, but as you see when the alliance fell apart the lobby stopped supporting them and in some cases began supporting us. Given the dynamic nature of such relations there is no need to become eternal enemies with those countries and instead show our dislike if they do something we don't like. Realpolitik is what's at the core.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Was there ethnic cleansing during the emergence of Israel? Sure there was. Was it done at times rather brutally? yes. But given all that, it doesn't constitute genocide like the that of the Armenians, J3ws, Cambodians, and so on.



First off saying that a state is genocidal requires a state to have committed a genocide. Second off, as I've said giving weapons is a business. Israel's selling of weapons to Azerbaijan is of course terrible, but we shouldn't treat Israel like Turkey or Azerbaijan. There's just no comparison. Plus, we must understand that many countries including our closest ally supply Azerbaijan, and many countries try to be good with Turkey/Az because of their resources and strategic locations, including Iran which holds close relations with Turkey and holds good economic relations with Azerbaijan. If you were a external country would you choose Armenia or Turkey/Az as your close partners? When it comes to the j3wish lobby groups, that again stemmed from their country's alliance with Turkey, but as you see when the alliance fell apart the lobby stopped supporting them and in some cases began supporting us. Given the dynamic nature of such relations there is no need to become eternal enemies with those countries and instead show our dislike if they do something we don't like. Realpolitik is what's at the core.

Article written by Stephen Lendman

Israel's Slow-Motion Genocide in Occupied Palestine



Imagine life under these conditions:

Living in limbo under a foreign occupier. Having no self-determination, no right of return, and no power over your daily life. Being in constant fear, economically strangled, and collectively punished.

Having your free movement denied by enclosed population centers, closed borders, regular curfews, roadblocks, checkpoints, electric fences, and separation walls. Having your homes regularly demolished and land systematically stolen to build settlements for encroachers in violation of international law prohibiting an occupier from settling its population on conquered land.

Having your right to essential services denied - to emergency health care, education, employment, and enough food and clean water. Being forced into extreme poverty, having your crops destroyed, and being victimized by punitive taxes. Having no right for redress in the occupier's courts under laws only protecting the occupier.

Being regularly targeted by incursions and attacks on the ground and from the air. Being willfully harassed, ethnically cleansed, arrested, incarcerated, tortured, and slaughtered on any pretext, including for your right of self-defense. Having no rights on your own land in your own country for over six decades and counting. Vilified for being Muslims and called terrorists, Jihadists, crazed Arabs, and fundamentalist extremists. Victimized by a slow-motion genocide to destroy you.

According to Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, Israel has conducted state-sponsored genocide against the Palestinians for decades and intensively in Gaza. In a September 2006 Electronic Intifada article titled "Genocide in Gaza" he wrote:

"A genocide is taking place in Gaza....An average of eight Palestinians die daily in the Israeli attacks on the Strip. Most of them are children. Hundreds are maimed, wounded and paralyzed. (It's become) a daily business, now reported (only) in the internal pages of the local press, quite often in microscopic fonts. The chief culprits are the Israeli pilots who have a field day," like shooting fish in a barrel. Why not, they're only Muslims, so who'll notice or care.


Israel is a serial human rights international law abuser. The UN Human Rights Commission affirms that it violates nearly all 149 articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that governs the treatment of civilians in war and under occupation and is guilty of grievous war crimes.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/112608Lendman.shtml

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

LATER ADDITION BY PERSOPOLIS: An Armenian friend of mine told me to be suspicious of ArmeniaNow, Radio Free Liberty, Jamestown, because they are funded by America to break Armenians' sprits; So when you read my post of this article below - keep that in mind. I am not an expert on these groups, so use your own common sense. Maybe someone who is knowledgable on these groups should open a thread to discuss it.

NOTE BY PERSOPOLIS: Education is the only way to purge the Post-Stalinist mindset. This is really sad to read -- I'm sure the Turks are celebrating. If this attitude continues you will put Armenia in danger (yes, Mos, I'm talking to you and anyone that hasn't come to grips with reality): My comments in RED.

BY: Gayane Abrahamyan (a reporter for ArmeniaNow.com in Yerevan).

Members of at least one diaspora group who have returned to Armenia – Iranian-Armenians – say they are encountering difficulty in gaining acceptance in Yerevan.

Iran, which borders Armenia to the south, is home to an estimated 70,000-90,000 ethnic Armenians (and millions in the diaspora), descendants of those who migrated in the 17th century to then-Persia to work as craftsmen and artists. The two countries share close historic, diplomatic and economic ties. Armenia, in fact, was once part of the Persian Empire. [Note: the recent ParskaHye population in Iran was estimated at 300,000-500,000; in 1979 it was 3-4% of Iran's total population.]

Even so, these days many Armenians see Iran, a Muslim society, and their own country as a world apart.

In a series of interviews with EurasiaNet.org, ethnic Armenians from Iran who have returned to Yerevan claimed that they routinely experience discrimination in Armenia. [<-- Sad.] The prices they pay as “Persians” [the name often used in Armenia for Iranians] for hospital care, food staples and various retail goods can be several times more expensive as the fees charged to locals, they claimed.

Forty-three-year-old homemaker Armine Darsbidian, who moved to Armenia in 2000 from Tehran and holds an Armenian passport, recounts how parents at her son’s Yerevan high school called on her as a “rich Persian” to donate more money to supplement the school’s budget. “Why Persian? My family lived in Iran for a century, but we always tried to avoid Iranians. [<-- Sad what stupid attitudes lead to.] We never invited any of them to our house,” fumed Darsbidian.

Darsbidian also claimed that she was charged double for an ultrasound at a Yerevan hospital, where staff claimed that they had the right to charge separate, higher fees for foreigners. The practice was abolished in 2008. A hospital manager told EurasiaNet.org that Darsbidian might have been charged in error.

Another Iranian-Armenian agreed that such circumstances often occur. “Yes, there is not such a very warm attitude, but it is because we are very different with our traditions,” said Murad Khechoian, a member of the Union of Armenians in Iran. “We live in a different atmosphere, so it can be that this will only go on until locals get used to us.”

Iranian-Armenian repatriation is not a new phenomenon. In 1946-48, a repatriation program saw 20,000 Iranian-Armenians return to Armenia; roughly another 20,000 came back during the 1970s.

The Ministry of Diaspora Affairs, created in 2008 to strengthen ties between Armenia and diaspora Armenians, maintains that intolerance toward Iranian-Armenians or other diaspora Armenians groups is not an issue. Ministry representatives cite a state-funded program, Ari Tun (“Come Home”), which brings 900 diaspora Armenian youngsters to stay with local families each year as proof that ties are growing stronger with Armenia’s far-flung diaspora groups.

* * *

Many Iranian Armenians say that, with time, they have learned to take their image as “foreigners” in stride, but caution that much work remains to be done to encourage acceptance of diaspora Armenians resident in Armenia.

To illustrate this point, philologist Martin Gabrielian cites a joke about a magic gold fish that promises to fulfill the wishes of a native-born Armenian, an Iranian-Armenian and an Armenian from the separatist region of Nagorno-Karabakh. All three ethnic Armenians end up wishing for their counterparts to leave Armenia, Gabrielian said.

“If people are making jokes on this issue, then there is a problem,” he concluded. [Persopolis agrees.]

[READ FULL ARTICLE HERE: http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62178.]


For any fools that don't understand the importance of Persian history to securing Armenia's territorial integrity and survival as a people, print this out and stick in your pocket:

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

@KanadaHye

Look, Israel has committed human rights violations, no one is arguing against that. What I am arguing is that those human rights violations don't amount to Genocide. You should know Genocide is a heavy accusation and it does not apply to what happened in the Palestine region. If it did constitute, you have so many other events also be called Genocide. At this point, however, this also conflict has become a see-saw one, one side attacks, the other side retaliates and so on. Just the other day a Palestinian murdered a whole J3wish family, and following that Israel approved new settlements. And for that you will most likely have retaliations.

NOTE BY PERSOPOLIS: Education is the only way to purge the Post-Stalinist mindset. This is really sad to read -- I'm sure the Turks are celebrating. If this attitude continues you will put Armenia in danger (yes, Mos, I'm talking to you and anyone that hasn't come to grips with reality):

What surprising about this? Parskahyes and Haystancis have grown up in different societies for around 100 years, it's natural we will have differences and not see each other eye to eye. As I said, Hayastancis feel close to Russians and other post-soviet people than Iranians which Parskahyes will feel closer to. We are more familiar with Russia literature, cinema, culture, than Iranian. We hayastancis are a typical post-Soviet people. Parskahyes are different. Sure we are Armenians at the core, but we are different on the outer layer.

Most Parskahyes have left for the West not Armenia actually. Man those parskahyes speak armenian weird

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

@KanadaHye

Look, Israel has committed human rights violations, no one is arguing against that. What I am arguing is that those human rights violations don't amount to Genocide. You should know Genocide is a heavy accusation and it does not apply to what happened in the Palestine region. If it did constitute, you have so many other events also be called Genocide. At this point, however, this also conflict has become a see-saw one, one side attacks, the other side retaliates and so on. Just the other day a Palestinian murdered a whole J3wish family, and following that Israel approved new settlements. And for that you will most likely have retaliations.

Personally, if Iran via Hezbollah sends Israel back to the stone age, I wouldn't cry a tear. Okh ella. Israel is a racist genocidal state that has no place in the 21st century and they won't survive unless they change their policies.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Personally, if Iran via Hezbollah sends Israel back to the stone age, I wouldn't cry a tear. Okh ella. Israel is a racist genocidal state that has no place in the 21st century and they won't survive unless they change their policies.

So if it's Muslim civilians dying you care, but if its J3wish civilians dying, you don't? At least have some consistency. More bloodshed is not the solution (it's never the solution), nor is this backwards "eye for an eye" mentality, in my view it's getting the US to be a more honest broker in the whole process, they are way to pro-Israel to be considered an "impartial" mediator. Israeli state is not going anywhere, Arabs will just have to live with that, and try to get the best deal from the negotiations, and move on.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

So if it's Muslim civilians dying you care, but if its J3wish civilians dying, you don't? At least have some consistency. More bloodshed is not the solution (it's never the solution), nor is this backwards "eye for an eye" mentality, in my view it's getting the US to be a more honest broker in the whole process, they are way to pro-Israel to be considered an "impartial" mediator. Israeli state is not going anywhere, Arabs will just have to live with that, and try to get the best deal from the negotiations, and move on.

First of all, not all Palestinians are Muslim. Secondly, the Palestinians DID NOTHING to deserve what the state of Israel has done to them. The Zionists and European J3ws that migrated stabbed the Palestinians in the back and gave them the boot after the Palestinians invited them into Palestine. They had no issues with sharing the land of Palestine. Sadly, many J3ws were tricked into settling in Israel due to their faith based Aliyah (persuaded by Zionists who wished to rule them).

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

First of all, not all Palestinians are Muslim. Secondly, the Palestinians DID NOTHING to deserve what the state of Israel has done to them. The Zionists and European J3ws that migrated stabbed the Palestinians in the back and gave them the boot after the Palestinians invited them into Palestine. They had no issues with sharing the land of Palestine. Sadly, many J3ws were tricked into settling in Israel due to their faith based Aliyah (persuaded by Zionists who wished to rule them).

Well I sympathise with the Palestinians who have suffered because of the establishment of Israel and the subsequent conflicts. However, I do not consider what happened to them Genocide, ethnic cleansing yes, but not genocide. Many Palestinians were deported from their homes. However, it has now turned into a uncontrollable tug of war - Palestinians commit attacks against Israeli civilians and Israel has to respond, and so the cycle continues. There needs to be more legitimate mediators working on this - US is to pro-Israel for their to be significant progress.