Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Like i said name calling and nothing more comes from those who wish Russia to leave. No answers to our security needs and the lack of such answers seems to not even bother people.
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Can you refer to any posting which argued that the Russians should leave or the Russian bases should close?

Good question ... again; impossible "arguing" reasonably.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Ok i see so you guys expect Russia to provide us with security while we join its oppositions economic circle instead of its and while we flirt with NATO while relying on the CSTO for Armenias very existence. You guys want Russian security while you spit in its face yeh thats like so realistic of you. You agree to sign a agreement with the EU which says you cannot be part of Russian customs union yet you expect Russia to overlook this and to provide you with security, cheap gass, economic opportunities, infrastructure, discounted weapons...so like how realistic is all this? What would you do or think if you were Russia? I have supported Serj because he has been able to play the west vs the east better then i thought was possible but it seems that game has reached its limitations and the time to make a final decision is approaching fast. I think it is unfortunate but all to real that Armenia is a dependent state and that the only power at this time it can depend on for its security is Russia. I don't care how you look at it there simply is no other alternative for Armenia - should Armenia join the EU and NATO at the expense of Russias custom union and CSTO i fear it will be one the last things it does as a "independent state". There are plenty of good examples for us to see what the west does to little guys like us but you prefer to ignore it all in your blind hate. You are so reckless that you support a spy like Raffi in a national election knowing full well that he has neither the ability nor the inclination to run the country and is under the service of English and USA intelligence agencies. Yes i would rather have a Armenia then not to have one and if that means being under the Russian sphere then so be it for there is no other realistic alternative.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Ok i see so you guys expect Russia to provide us with security while we join its oppositions economic circle instead of its and while we flirt with NATO while relying on the CSTO for Armenias very existence. You guys want Russian security while you spit in its face yeh thats like so realistic of you. You agree to sign a agreement with the EU which says you cannot be part of Russian customs union yet you expect Russia to overlook this and to provide you with security, cheap gass, economic opportunities, infrastructure, discounted weapons...so like how realistic is all this? What would you do or think if you were Russia? I have supported Serj because he has been able to play the west vs the east better then i thought was possible but it seems that game has reached its limitations and the time to make a final decision is approaching fast. I think it is unfortunate but all to real that Armenia is a dependent state and that the only power at this time it can depend on for its security is Russia. I don't care how you look at it there simply is no other alternative for Armenia - should Armenia join the EU and NATO at the expense of Russias custom union and CSTO i fear it will be one the last things it does as a "independent state". There are plenty of good examples for us to see what the west does to little guys like us but you prefer to ignore it all in your blind hate. You are so reckless that you support a spy like Raffi in a national election knowing full well that he has neither the ability nor the inclination to run the country and is under the service of English and USA intelligence agencies. Yes i would rather have a Armenia then not to have one and if that means being under the Russian sphere then so be it for there is no other realistic alternative.

Do you actually see what you have just written there?

You have all but said that Russia is no better for Armenians than the Ottoman Empire, and you've also recycled a lot of the "arguments" of a typical genocide denier from Turkey!

For example:

You guys want Russian security while you spit in its face

Is desiring some measure of political automony, and some measure of international interaction with nations other then Russia, "spitting in Russia's face"? So do you now think the Ottoman Empire was quite justified in its massacres, since Armenians were "spitting in its face" all the time by trying to have just the most minor displays of nationhood.

You agree to sign a agreement with the EU which says you cannot be part of Russian customs union yet you expect Russia to overlook this and to provide you with security

And in the 19th-century Armenians were seeking protection from, and agreements with, foreign powers - so, by your argument, how could the Ottoman empire be expected to overlook that and still provide security for its Armenians?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Big words, Big Ideas.... Just need one thing... End the blockade. It is not an act of nature. Nobody can convince me that it is the act of russia. It is the act of our immediate and "peacefull" neighbours.

One of the STATED conditions of Turkish membership of the EU is the lifting of all blocades against Armenia, land and air.

What has Russia done to stop the blockade? Absolutely nothing - because it is in Russia's interest for it to continue! It keeps Armenia weak and dependent on Russia. If Armenia was to become a member of that proposed CIS trading block rather than the EU one, would Russia then be demanding that Turkey lift its blockade because Turkey cannot be allowed to block trade with one member of the CIS block and continue to expect to trade normally with the others? Of course Russia would not make such a demand. If Russia were to make that condition, it would be a no-brainer that Armenia should join the CIS trading block - but Russia will never make such an offer.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I think that Armenia should achieve as much political autonomy as it can. It is actually very counterproductive to fully give in to russian controll. Once international community regards Armenia as a political corps, controlled by russian will, it will loose interest in us. From this only Karabakh struggle and genocide recognition (our interests)will suffer.
Russia has been behaving bad towards us lately. It could be because it is very sure that Armenia has no room for any maneuvres, along with anger at our unwillingness to accept any of their deals without questions lately.
Cultivating political and economic ties with other nations and blocks is very beneficial for us.
But it should be noted that russia is also historically very paranoya towards it's allies. As much as we know and interact with russians, so too are the turks and they have made gains and weakened our position with Moscow with money deals. We are running on a tight rope here. Replacing russia as a military strategic partner(like georgians did) is out of question for us. Political disscussions should be conducted taking into account it's influence on public and the possibility of our enemies using it to influence russian fears and paranoya's.
It is one thing to discuss politics, another, the growing hatred towards russians in Armenia which could resonate and like that western politician hopes on article on previous page, should influence our government's actions.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I agree. It would be far more normal/typical ( and dignified) defence structure.
It would also shut up the critics both from within and outside the country.

One thing that could be of concern is this.

The present structure was put in place when the threat of Turkish invasion/attack was imminent.
Engaging Russian forces on the border would have triggered the third world war.

Replacing Russian forces with Armenian forces, wouldn’t it tempt Turkey to “play games” on the border.
Almost similar to the border with Azerbaijan putting our forces on constant edge.
As long as Russian personnel are not involved, Turkey may regard it as fair game.

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Turkish games is something that has to be dealt with but it won't be like Azeris.....Turks like to intimidate and might mass troops at border.

The transition from Russian guards to Armenian guards must be done responsibly and with a clear objectives which will not happen overnight but gradually with proper training and must be in full cooperation with Armenian and Russian leadership for security of Armenian current borders and the regional interests of Russia.....I am also a big believer that we can have aid from UAV surveillance in more efficent border patrol which can relief more personnel.

Does anyone know how many Russian border patrol personnel are guarding the Turkish/Armenian border?

One thing is for sure that works in Armenia's advantage.....an invasion of Armenia by Turks will mean NATO has divided a line between Russia and Iran, both now becoming sitting ducks with control of oil to eastern Europe.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hey Bell last i checked it was the Turk that committed the genocide(with the help of europeans) not Russia. Some measure of autonomy does not include things like joining your enemies trade and security blocks at the expense of your own. Russia did not say Armenia had to join the custom union or the E.U. but it was the E.U. that insisted that this be a either or decision by stating that membership in the custom union was unacceptable if Armenia wished to be part of EU partnership. Some people here are trying to cloud the water and turn something that is not that complicated into something else. The Turk did far more then fail to provide security-it conspired to exterminate-there is a significant difference.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Anybody read Sharmazanov's declaration today? I think it somes up our policies and expectations.

[londontsi]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

One of the STATED conditions of Turkish membership of the EU is the lifting of all blocades against Armenia, land and air.

What has Russia done to stop the blockade? Absolutely nothing - because it is in Russia's interest for it to continue! It keeps Armenia weak and dependent on Russia. If Armenia was to become a member of that proposed CIS trading block rather than the EU one, would Russia then be demanding that Turkey lift its blockade because Turkey cannot be allowed to block trade with one member of the CIS block and continue to expect to trade normally with the others? Of course Russia would not make such a demand. If Russia were to make that condition, it would be a no-brainer that Armenia should join the CIS trading block - but Russia will never make such an offer.

When a new President is elected his first meeting, his first question, is about security matters and threats not the economy.
Economy is important but never overrides defence and security.


The EU does not run Turkey. Anybody taking that at face value is politically naive.

Russia cannot decide or action Turkey's foreign policy.


Example Cyprus, half the country occupied by Turkey.

Cyprus IS an EU full member.

Turkey does not recognise the Republic of Cyprus.
Turkey boycotts all its ports/airports to Cypriot entities.

Turkey is in negotiations for EU membership.
When Cyprus took over the rotating Presidency Turkey froze its negotiation as a sign of non recognition of a member state.

There are umpteen UN resolutions about Cyprus
Turkey basically has said to the world come and throw us out if you can.

Why doesn’t somebody check with Turkey before deciding Turkey has been outmanoeuvred.

[londontsi]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Anybody read Sharmazanov's declaration today? I think it somes up our policies and expectations.

Any details?

My humble opinion is it will be about golden rainbows, flying pigs and "the Republican Party will win next general elections"


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