Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[imported_Hellektor]

P.s.

One last think, that clay tablet of Babylon, mentions Urartu not Armenia.

You are either myopic or you are lying because the interpretation says Armenia and not Urartu and it's done by your dear lovers the English:

Do you ever check the link before you say something irrelevant?

Babylonian Clay Tablet 600 BC Interpreted

Babylonian Clay Tablet 600 BC

[imported_Fadix]

The Germans, and there still are still supporter of this theses... accused the Jews of spying and drawing maps to where the allies had to bomb by plane. They accused the allied bombings of civilian targets. The Jews were accused to collaborate with the Soviets to destroy Germany, they were accused to serve in mass in the allied armies..., in fact, there are pages and pages explaining why the German plan of evacuation of the Jewrly to Palestine or other lands was not retified and replaced with the plan B that later was to be what we know of the final solution.

But let me clarify so that we see how disgusting you seem by using the term relocation.

Armenians were removed from their homes to march in the interior..., they were not permitted to leave the Empire. When reliefs were preparred for the camps, the Red Cross proposed the feed them, the Ottoman Empire refused by declaring that they wished nothing to be done that could prolong their lives. A Red Cross mission in Van was actually attacked to threaten the organization.

Criminals were released from prisons, doctors were apointed from the Ministry of war, to decide if those criminals could do the job they were appointed to, and if they were psychologically able to butcher. The mazhar commission has demonstrated by providing lists of those released from the central prisons... those selected were mostly those that were in prison for heavy murder crimes.

There is no any recorded event in history, where butchers were released from prison and prepared by doctors to be sent on defensless population, when the men were absent, because the convoys were formed by separating the men from the starting points.

The Germans later disgusted offered to help the Armenians by feeding them..., the Ottoman Empire refused. The German at the head of one of the Special organizations branch wrote a report, telling that he could not continue to remain silent and did not wanted to persue his task... in his report he recorded brutalities hardly recorded in the entire history of humanity... he as well reported how the Ittihadist government was the one having formed and planed the organizations butcheries.

...

This, idiot..., is not a cases of bad administration, this is a cases of genocide. The Suprem general of the East, the uncle of Enver, the minister of war; wrote in his own memoires that he tried to exterminate the Armenians to the last individual. Not a single such clear cut evidences of intention from someone at the topest of the military administration, exist in any other cases of genocide, even the Holocaust.

The Turkish military tribunal, was a Turkish tribunal..., the Mazhar commission was prepared by using over 40 men working at collecting hundreds of pages of evidences and hundreds of witnesses.

You are here, pathetically talking about Turks having been killed by Armenians, exposing the sick nature of your theses, when the enormity of the crime committed to the Armenians would make of any other killings having happened within the Ottoman borders as a nice vaccation in Cuba. So please don;t cry telling you haven't killed anyone, when you are participating in the murder by denying a disgusting and burtal crime, a genocide. Start acting as a human being, either recognize it, or shut the fk up.

6) More Germans could have died than Jews, but they were not killed by Jews.. Again you're trying to distract people.. In this case, Armenians took the risk of getting into a war with the Turks, which is not the same in the Jewish case.. The deportation was to prevent the situation getting worse.. I am very sorry and angry at the people who administered that, that they didn't provide enough protection, didn't relocate them nicely in other regions, and then finally let them get back to their homes when things got better..

7) I am not blaming the entire Turkish casualties on Armenians of course, but some part of it was definitely due to Armenian killings I believe..

8) I DIDN'T KILL ANYONE. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING TREATED LIKE I AM A MURDERER (NOT ONLY ME, A WHOLE NATION IS BEING PORTRAYED AS KILLERS IN THIS FORUM).

anyhow, these discussions are interesting, but it is too time consuming, that is why I am going to end my discussion with you as well Hellektor (as I did with Hovik, Fadix, Tongue, 1.5Million).. Please don't think I am running away as someone claimed.. It is just I cannot spend more time on this,

best,

[imported_Hellektor]

Same Turk Different Color

An introduction:
I have probably written hundreds of pages in this very forum and in this very thread. I agree with you that this is really time consuming and sleep depriving, so I’ll paste from my previous posts where needed.
I think I have answered all the questions repeatedly posed by the Turkish contributors many times and I have observed that the Turks have a habit of just quoting a part of my writings and attacking me and pretending to be as innocent as the lamb of god. This has been a great experience for me as well, because it shows that the Turks really do possess some of the characteristics that we presume they do.
I have said: “I think had your government opened your skulls, taken out your brains, cut it in two with an axe and put only half of it back inside, you would still be more reasonable.” This is the reason you only read my posts partly and attack me with your virtual scimitars and psychoanalyze me to your liking.

Hellektor,

I am leaving this forum, but since this is the first time you are responding to my posts quoting a lot, I am posting this message.. After this one, you won't be bothered by my messages Hellektor. But I will read your response, if you want to reply, so please feel free..

1) as far as I remember I sent you only one message which you took quotes from and you didn't respond to me (sarcastically or not) until today (correct me if I am wrong). so when you say:
You always twist my words and quote whatever you like to attack me when you cannot confront the truth. When I respond sarcastically you pretend to be "offended" and attack me again.

so you're wrong..

Because it’s so time consuming, I cannot post everyday and by “You always twist my words and quote whatever you like” I meant all of you Turkish guys, it’s a shame the English language doesn’t use the single form of the second person anymore. I guess you took it personally but I meant generally.
The fact that you did quote me/are quoting me like you do proves that it also applies to you personally as well, therefore, I am not wrong!

2) Lausanne is imposed on Armenians but we were dying to sign the Sevres, right?

Self-righteousness is a trait of the Turks that never fails to stupefy me, since you are new I mention it once again.
You DID sign the Sèvres treaty but we DIDN’T sign the Lausanne treaty, whether you were dying (wish you were not killing at least) or not, is your business.

3) Again I think there is no clear definition of people being indigenous to the land.. What is the magic threshold value for this? Do you have to live somewhere for 2,000 3,000 years to be considered indigenous? So, a 1,000 years was not enough for the Turks to be indigenous? How do you know that there weren't other people before Armenians were in EASTERN ANATOLIA (no offense)? Are you saying God put the Armenians there when the world was created? Or if you don't believe in creation, you can explain in other ways as well.. I don't think you can claim a land just because you were there before...

I have answered this is million times but your damaged brain won’t grasp it. The Armenian nation was formed in Armenia. The Armenian language originated in Armenia. Turks are the descendants of the nomadic Central Asian invading bandits, looking for pasture for their cattle, destroying everything standing, razing cities to the ground, raping and killing every living thing, torching houses and churches and schools… History has recorded enough of the atrocities committed by your ancestors, so you’d better face your history in order to move forward. Meanwhile you can read excerpts from the feats of your early ancestors here so do check this link:

…children were ravished from the embraces of their mothers and mercilessly hurled against rocks.

4) You quote from someone named Grigor of Akner (historian but not a human being I am sure) to describe the Turks as:
"They had large heads, like a buffalo, narrow eyes like a chick, short noses like a cat, protruding chins like a dog, narrow waists like an ant, and short legs like a pig. They are completely beardless,...."

So, does this make you a racist, are you against Asians? Are they difficult to look at, awful to see? Do you hate almost 20% of the world? do you have no shame to quote something like that, to make fun of the physical appearance?
So, except our brains, we all became like you! I don't think you can think straight really.

You see how selectively you quote and how hastily you jump to conclusions?
The historian is alright, he describes your barbaric all destroying ancestors whom he was seeing for the first time. Had they brought presents like Santa Clause, don’t you think he would think otherwise? As I said you are touchy brutes…
And I’m not a racist neither are you I have said earlier:
“Racism is a strictly Western European thing and comes from the fear of becoming darker in outward features, period.
The Armenian Genocide was not because Armenians looked very differently from the rest of the subjects. It was because they were Christians and by definition not Turkish.
Again, the religious issue shouldn't be confused with the existing Islam/West conflict. It's only because by being Christians, even though their language and names were taken from them and replaced with Turkish, they were still non-Turks.
The reality is that "Turk" is a concept, a new nationality; the process of becoming a nation has not been accomplished yet. The Turk is a Muslim who speaks Turkish and believes he/she is a Turk. The DNA composition is totally irrelevant.
Turks of today are not a race. They are a result of the systematic or otherwise, forced Turkification throughout the Ottoman Rule, whether you like it or not.
When I try to figure out why this had to be and I try to perceive it from the ruling class viewpoint, I can see that they needed to do this out of the fear of losing grip, because they were the minority. The whole "Numbers Game" (there were 1,000,000; no 800,000; no 600,000; no 300,000 Armenians, etc.) being repeated over and over in the forums reveals this to be the case. I have come to think of this as an instinctive, inherent characteristic of the different Turkic tribes.”

5) and I think I responded to your "they got rid of us when they didn't need Armenians anymore".. .. The Turks could not learn things from the Armenians, and then needed them to run the country. And then all of a sudden, with a magical touch, they became extremely capable of running a country, and thought they don't need Armenians any more.. You're not making any sense..

“and I think I responded to your” selective garbage a million times, so here’s once more and I make perfect sense:
The “magical touch” is called the rise of nationalism, the “awareness” of the Turks of their “nationality”, then the rise of the Young Turks and the rise of Pan-Turkism, and to answer your wonder at the “generosity” of the Turks in employing the Armenians I have said time and again:
“because there were TWO distinct groups of Armenians under the Ottoman Tyranny: The handful of “luckier” ones, the bourgeois so to speak, who lived in Constantinople and the 90%+ unfortunates who lived in Armenia proper and were called the reaya, the peasants, who also bore the brunt of all the calamities that befell them during that dark era…. Just think of jizya, haraj, janissary, gyavour, reaya for starters.”

6) More Germans could have died than Jews, but they were not killed by Jews.. Again you're trying to distract people.. In this case, Armenians took the risk of getting into a war with the Turks, which is not the same in the Jewish case.. The deportation was to prevent the situation getting worse.. I am very sorry and angry at the people who administered that, that they didn't provide enough protection, didn't relocate them nicely in other regions, and then finally let them get back to their homes when things got better..

Again, your lobotomized brain would not admit that the Armenians LOATHED the Ottoman rule from the beginning, they DIDN’T WANT THEIR RULE, they CURSED and DAMNED them forever for stealing their children, mercilessly hurling their helpless babies against rocks. They wanted/still want to liberate their occupied country from the Ottoman yoke. How hard is this for you to understand. YOU STARTED THE KILLING FROM THE ILL DAY YOU APPEARED THIS SIDE OF THE CASPIAN.
How come you can break into my home, rape and kill almost all the inhabitants and if say, my son survives your carnage and later comes back and kills your son who is still occupying my home and not showing the slightest remorse, you blame the earthquake on Mars on my son? YOU STARTED THE KILLINGS.
And yes there were Jews who defended themselves as well among the partisans and they DID justly kill Nazi killers.
And it was not RELOCATION, IT WAS A DIABOLICALLY PLANNED GENOCIDE.

7) I am not blaming the entire Turkish casualties on Armenians of course, but some part of it was definitely due to Armenian killings I believe..

Answered above.

8) I DIDN'T KILL ANYONE. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING TREATED LIKE I AM A MURDERER (NOT ONLY ME, A WHOLE NATION IS BEING PORTRAYED AS KILLERS IN THIS FORUM).

A WHOLE “NATION” HAS A BRILLIANT RECORD OF A THOUSAND YEARS OF BARBAITY.
DENYING GENOCIDE IS THE SAME AS CONTINUING IT, AND YOUR UNBORN CHILD HAS ALREADY KILLED MY PEOPLE UNTIL THE DAY YOU FACE YOUR HISTORY.

anyhow, these discussions are interesting, but it is too time consuming…Please don't think I am running away as someone claimed.. It is just I cannot spend more time on this,

best,

Good for you.

[Hovik]

This issue pretty much politized. You know how it is politicized in Turkey, and you very well know how it is politized for Armenians. Additionally it became an identity issue for Armenians.

Ha, you are G-D right it's an identity issue for us. Heres how it works...

My name is Hovik... I identify that a total of 8 of my family members were brutally slaughtered by Turks in the Genocide. Therefore I also identify that I have a responsibility to their souls to push for recognition of this crime. I couldn't agree with you more, this is an identity issue for Armenians - it is our duty to identify and then rectify.

[imported_Hellektor]

Uninteresting Brute Part One

Interesting Personality

I really cant what I have read, I wonder how many Armenians share this view.

It is really suprising, I always thought eastern Christians are closest to us in terms of values, the way of life etc.

Do you EVER read ANY of my posts carefully? You just SELECTIVELY quote a phrase from my post and you don’t know what comes out of your sick brain. What VALUES and WAY OF LIFE are you vomiting about?
THESE ARE YOUR VALUES:

…children were ravished from the embraces of their mothers and mercilessly hurled against rocks.

“eastern Christians are closest to us in terms of values, the way of life etc”!!! As an Armenian poet says: Do not mix us with your races of bears.

This is what you were before raping and stealing our women and children for centuries:
read the following by Grigor Aknertsi, a 13th century historian who describes your grandpaws when he saw them for the first time:

"Let us say some more about what these first Tatars resembled. The first who came against our country were not like people. They were awful to see and impossible to describe. They had large heads, like a buffalo, narrow eyes like a chick, short noses like a cat, protruding chins like a dog, narrow waists like an ant, and short legs like a pig. They are completely beardless, possessing the strength of a lion and a screeching voice like an eagle. They appear unexpectedly. Their women have attractive hats covered with a brocade shawl on top and broad faces smeared with a deadly pine medicine. They give birth like snakes, and eat like wolves. Death does not appear among them, and so they can live for three hundred years. Such were the folk who came first to the upper land. They never eat bread."

But this interesting person does not even believe in God, and yet be very proud of his origins.

Your selective (read sly and cunning) half brain only sees one part of the reality. Would you care to also quote WHY I don’t believe in god? Of course not, so once again:
I don't believe in god, because the existence of the Turk precludes the existence of god. If god existed he/she/it wouldn't have, couldn't have, shouldn't have created the Turk. Turk and god are therefore mutually exclusive.

How many Armenians call this atheist person as his/her brother? We always knew Armenians proud of their religion.

Your brutal kind is NOT CAPABLE of grasping what our religion is all about.

YOu are obviously confused.

A more confused, half brain, lobotomized, sorry sod like you is only to find in occupied “Anatolia”.

We Turks do not want to talk about our miseries in past, we always think that for great nations it is sign of weakness or pity to talk about miseries of past, we rather prefer to forget.

What miseries in the past?

YOU HAVE INVADED MY HOME, YOU HAVE KILLED US AND RAPED AND STOLEN OUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN, MERCILESSLY HURLING BABIES AGAINST ROCKS FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND YOU ARE STILL DESTROYING OUR MONUMENTS AND KILLING US IN OUR SLEEP (SO MUCH FOR YOUR “STRENGTH” AND “BRAVERY”) WHILE OCCUPYING OUR HOME AND YOU CAN’T BRING YOURSELVES TO SHOW A GRAIN OF REMORSE.

But if you like we can talk about what your Dashank ancestors did and help Russians to massacre our ancestors.

Your slime-filled saturated, mucked up brain will not absorb no matter how many times I say:
Both the Russian Czarist and Russian Bolshevik Tyrannies HATED AND PERSECUTED the Dashnaks. They put up funeral ceremonies for Dashnaktsoution announcing it dead time and again. They hacked Dashnaks to death in the Soviet prisons. They banned it and persecuted, executed and exiled tens of thousands of their least suspicious “sympathizers” and you have the guts, brazen faced shameless liar that you are to throw xxxx at Dashnaks.
Well, surprise, surprise! I have a fan in my hand and the xxxx you throw hits it and comes back to you but you are soooooooooooo brazen faced that you shut up and you have nothing to say or you throw the same recycled crap that you take out of your throat after my fan has shoved it there.

I can write pages of pages what your so called heroic fedayin ancestors did against Muslims and Turks.

The “so called fedayin” are SAINTS EVERY SINGLE KNOWN AND UNKNOWN ONE OF THEM.
You self-satisfied, self-righteous, shameless barbarian! If it wasn’t for the Fedayis, this little, tiny, craggy, rocky, landlocked, resource less piece of land called Armenia (which is a trunk in your Pan-Turkist genocidal Mongol ass) would not exist today.
The only good Armenian is the one who let’s you steal his healthy boys for the diabolical janissary army, who let’s you insatiable savages to steal and rape his wife and daughters in your filthy harems and bends his neck like sheep to your scimitars…
But what if they defend themselves…. You are so self-righteous that it makes me sick.
PUT THIS IN YOUR MONGOL HALF BRAIN:
A people under occupation HATE, LOATH and DESPISE their occupiers and EVERY act of resistance against them is totally justified.

What do you think of the Palestinians who blow themselves up in busses, game arcades, bazaars, schools, restaurants, etc. killing and maiming indiscriminately?

When have the Vietnamese apologized to Americans for what the Viet-Kong did to them?

Do the Arab world apologize for the atrocities committed by the insurgence when they behead people in front of cameras, drag charred and mutilated bodies of Americans in the streets and hang them from bridges?

Haven’t you read, seen or heard how the allies raped and killed the Germans and treated them like rats and insects when they defeated them in WWII?

Fedayis, Partisans, the Viet-Kong, Iraqi insurgence, Intifadha, etc., WOULDN’T HAVE EXISTED for no reason.

This comes from a song for the Fedayis when they took revenge on a Kurdish bandit tribe called the Mazrik who were harassing and molesting the neighboring Armenians for ages, so that they got the hell out with their folding and non-folding tents and never came back:

“Aman! where can we escape now the Fedayis are coming?”
Cried the Kurdish woman, holding her baby in her arms.
“Don’t be afraid be tranquil, Baji jan; we will never touch the women.”
Replied the vengeance seeking jan Feda…

This is how we are brought up. This is what they teach us you cold hearted, self-worshipping, rape crazy, mercilessly babies to rocks hurling Turk.

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK WE HAD TO TAKE YOUR BARBARIC RULE AND SAVAGERY FOR EVER?

Most of the Turks including political nationalists to have relation with you guys. Alparslan Turkes, the former leader of Nationalist Movement Party initiated elevated relationship with state of Armenia, he even said to Levon Ter Petrosyan that in the past young Turk regime had mistakes against Armenians of Ottoman empire.

Armenia has announced time and again that they are ready to start diplomatic relations WITHOUT PRECONDITIONS but your treacherous, fascist, arrogant Erdogan always “demands” that Armenians forget the horrible genocide and give up the tiny piece of our historic land we won back from that bogus “nation”, the “Azeris” who started the war and who miserably lost it and they are sniveling and whining all the time and the West is sucking them because of oil.

Anyways, I dont want to spend my time responding this confused person. You might think he is so angry and hateful, and probably ready to fight at any moment.

But in Turkish we have a saying "BArking dog does not bite" which applies this person very well, this type of ppeople are the first to escape when there is a real struggle.

The Internet forums are places for exchanging views and more often than not one comes across heated debates. My bitterness that looks like anger to you comes from your stupid, distorted, delusional garbage that you throw at us all the time. But you are a Turk and just like you are NOT CAPABLE of seeing crimes perpetrated by your ancestors against us for a thousand years, you will not see the source of my “anger”.
Actually when I read some of my posts I can’t help laughing and I certainly don’t bite. Since you are wolves it is obvious why you don’t like dogs. You call me a coward but it’s you who treacherously recruited all the young men and cunningly executed them, then drove all the women, children and elderly like sheep to roast in the desert, and you are mutilating us in our sleep... Great, brave Turks!
An Armenian saying goes: “Once you show the stick, the barking dog will escape” and that’s what happened when Fedayis kicked your ass, that’s what happened in Sardarabad and Artsakh, so do not project.

[imported_Hellektor]

Uninteresting Brute Part Two

PS: In past posting he said Millet-i Sadika stands for, "The nation of truth" , not "the nation of loyalty". Sadik comes from arabic word "Sadakte", yes in Arabic one of the meanings is truth, but in Turkish we use sadik as, "loyalty".
He can check with the Azeris of Iran about the meaning of "Sadik".
He says Armenians had never lied, that's why Armenians are called as Millet-i Sadika, for their truth.(WHich is another childish distortion and comment). This person also claims Islam allows lieing, it is partially true for some circumstances for SHia sect which is called as "Takiyye". Evn for shia this is allowed under hard cicumstances but for general Islamic understanding lieing is among the greatest of sins.

THEN HOW COME NONE OF YOU HAS PRODUCED ONE TRUTHFUL PHRASE THUS FAR?
I will deal with Armenian trustworthiness in my next post, meanwhile stop expecting us to be your “loyal” slaves for ever.

From http://www.seslisozluk.com/?word=sadık

1. loyal. faithful. obedient. devoted. true-blue. true-hearted. adhesive. constant. devout. stanch. staunch. trusty.
2. constant. devoted. faithful. loyal. stalwart. staunch. steadfast. true. truehearted. trusty. unswerving. sincere. honest. veracious. staunch sadakatli.
3. devoted. faithful. loyal. true. honest and accurate. constant. sincere. staunch. thick and thin. truehearted. trusty. unfailing.

[imported_Fadix]

Hovik,

I did not read all postings in the last 4 days, but I guess one of your questions which you claim was 'dodged' was about massacres of Turks and Tatars in Yerevan. So far I have found references from Stanford Shaw and Justin McCarthy. Whereas Shaw presents his findings as his individual conclusions, McCarthy refers to American foreign service and Armenian documents. Unless you will not dismiss their findings in advance, I can provide you with exact titles & references within this week.

In case you had other questions which you feel were 'dodged' please let me know because I could only find the one regarding the Yerevan massacres. Take care

What have you? Stanford Shaws and his Turkish wide Ezel Kural, both liars and academic fraud? The same individual that has plagrized his work by copying it from a Turkish scholar? Go upwards in my pervious answers, in which I give the name of the scholar in question, I won't name him again... the guy even copied the trash of Armenian losses table claiming it didn't even reach 200,000 and that the removal of the Armenians was just temporary, until the war is over, a claim even the Turkish diplomat Kamuran Gurun doesn't make, neither can be found in Envers apologistic trash he recycle.

As for McCarthy, I have the three of his major books. The men adjust the Turkish population in "Erivan"(he use the Turkish term, says a lot about the man) province, which he claims were a majority, something that is contradicted by his own correction value. When corrected the man claim 270,000 Turks(see page 217, as well as the appendix) for 1914, while the latest Russian "census" were those of 1896-97(even admitted by McCarthy)... from 1987 to 1914, the Ottoman Empire has accepted countless numbers of Muslim emmigrants from the Russian Empire to replace the dispersed Armenian population following the Hamidian massacres. This period as well could have been considered a silent population exchange..., McCarthy indirectly admit it, when he publish a table himself of Armenian emmigration in that period, placing it at the highest pick before the genocide.

Assuming this Armenian emmigration estimates were accurate..., we would have to replace them with Muslims crossing the border from the other side, from 1897, to 1905(the highest pick beside 1897) to 1914. Justin McF(c)arty then present the figure of 1926 from Soviet Census, of 89,000 Turks, and from this substract 270,000 - 89,000, and came to a loss of 67%.

The only thing this shows, is that McCarthy here again, is a screwed up fool pooping numbers and trying to increase the Muslim losses and dicrease Armenian losses.

Kamuran Guruns number of 702,000, which he tried to pass as the Armenians "relocated," were those of Muslims emmigrants that the Ottoman Empire has accepted to replace the Armenians,... from thos countless numbers were from Russian Armenia that had the door opened to them and free houses distributed.

In short, the only thing McCarthys fartations indicate is that there was no genocide of Muslim in "Erivan,"(not to be confounded with the Armenian Capital) neither were the Muslims a majority there, contrary to Mccarthys claims which are contradicted by his own figures..., in fact, when substracting the immigration ratio from the Turkish population, the mortality rate is lower than the mortality rate of Armenians within the borders of "Russian Armenia."

As for evidences of Armenian brutalities, they were recorded in villages; typical such villages were populated of few dozens of people.

McCarthy short of any clear and grownbraking evidences writes: "The best evidence on the massacres and forced deportations of the Muslims of Erivan comes from population statistics taken before and after the wars." But when taking a look at those figures, they actually say quite the opposit. Tartar Turks were nomadics, Armenians were not, those Armenians that managed to survive ended up with nothing, having lost everything, while the Tartar Turks that emmigrated ended up in the houses, which the owner was either dead or pushed out of it.

[Hovik]

matteo, do you have two identities in this forum? Is your other name helpneeded? I am just trying to figure out your post... what the hell does my comment about helpneeded have to do with my statement about kemal dodging questions???

One would have to be braindead to not see the blatant game of dodgeball kemal was playing with regards to my contest of a statement he had made that Yerevan was a Turkish city or populated by a majority of Turks, and that Turks were massacred by Armenians there... I requested that he present evidence that Turks were massacred by Armenians in Yerevan and he failed to do so, did he not? Therefore the request was dodged... Do you still have a problem with that?

For the record, I don't regard as anything substantial - the works of the "so-called" (a Turkish phrase) "historian" Justin McCarthy.

If you have EYE-WITNESS non-turkish, non-Armenian sources that have written about the massacres of Turks in Yerevan, I would LOVE to see them. Anything short of the above parameters will be disregarded, so please don't bother submitting it unless those parameters are met.

Thank you.

P.S. I think Fadix covered about everything I was going to say in response to you so I rest my case, unless there is anything else...

[imported_Fadix]

armenian gangs were innocent heros!!! they were all bloody murderers...

.S. Papazian wrote as follows of the Dashnak Society:

"The purpose of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnak) is to achieve political and economic freedom in Turkish Armenia by means of rebellion. Terrorism has, from the beginning, been adopted by the Dashnak Committee of the Caucasus, as a policy or a method for achieving its ends. Under the heading "means" in their program adopted in 1892, Method No. 8 is as follows: "To wage fight and to subject to terrorism the government officials, the traitors…". Method No 11 is: "To subject the government institutions to destruction and pillage".

[Papazian, K.S., Patriotism Perverted, Boston Baker Press, 1934]

Ape quoting the work prepared by an Armenian Bolshevic political party. Let say what the same book has to say regarding Soviet Armenia.

p. 55

"The patent criticism leveled by the Dashnagtzoutune at the present Soviet Armenia is that, it is not independent, and it is a communistic and not a national government. These criticisms have no ground to stand on. The Dashnags themselves, while they were at the helm, tried to place Armenia under the protection of some great Power -- the United States for one -- through the League of Nations. The mandate of any great Power, if it had materialized, would have meant a limitation of Armenian independence.

Armenia has now secured its political existence, not by accepting the mandate of a great Power, but by joining hands, as one of the federated republics, with the great commonwealth of nations known as the Soviet Union."

No wonder apologistic morons can't find better than Bolshevic publications trying to kill the movement prepared by some intellectuals to get Armenia out of the Soviet Union. I hope I don't need to explain why I have lined some part of the above quote.

Let quote another part from the same book.

p.37

"When the world war broke out in Europe, the Turks began feverish preparations for joining hands with the Germans. In August 1914 the young Turks asked the Dashnag Convention, then in session in Erzerum, to carry out their old agreement of 1907, and start an uprising among the Armenians of the Caucasus against the Russian government. The Dashnagtzouitune refused to do this, and gave assurences that in the event of war between Russia and Turkey, they would support Turkey as loyal citizens. On the other hand, they could not be held responsible for the Russian Armenians."

[imported_Fadix]

They Are All Innocent Heros

Ape. Were I a Turk, I would rather prefer being butchered by those men, than as an Armenian being butchered by the members of the special organization, whom were released from prison criminals and butcherers trained by doctors.