Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[londontsi]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

In Armenia's case, Russia has clear interests in maintaining an Armenian presence in the Caucasus to act as a buffer against pan-turanism, the West, zionism, and even Iran. What Armenian leaders and the Armenian diaspora in Russia should do is continue to encourage official Moscow to treat Armenia as a strategic ally and provide it with weapons and economic investment.

Agreed.
I would include good governance to the list if Russia wants a strong ally in the Caucasus.

Strong army without a strong economy is like an athlete who has strong muscles
but weak lungs, runs out of breath very quickly !!

[Armanen]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Agreed.
I would include good governance to the list if Russia wants a strong ally in the Caucasus.

Strong army without a strong economy is like an athlete who has strong muscles
but weak lungs, runs out of breath very quickly !!

True. Russia is cleaning house and it is no coincidence that Armenia is too. Serj, little by little, is cleaning up the government and bringing in more technocrats, such as the current mayor of Yerevan.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I think there were many justificationes for such move... and in end of the day history is writen by winners.... other thing is that some one was directly told "no step further!"

I belive we were able at that point bring end to the azeri state and eliminate for ever azeri factor.... also I am not sure, I do not know well the details...

No doubt the world powers stopped us......would you have stopped? We had the momentum, fck political aspect. We would have dictated politics afterwards.

Why the hell did you get banned again Muk jan, et ko lezoon aper.

Fck them if they cant take it

[Persopolis]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[QUOTE=Hye;288653...we want Turkey to give third of its teretory to Armenia we want Azerbaijan to shut up and say Karabakh is Armenian Georgia to give us Javakhk maybe later Iran to give us nothern Iran.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of my own optimism, this is exactly why it is factually doubtful that you will survive as a people - in Iran or outside of it. Read up on your history - the worst time for Armenia & Armenians came following its disassociation with Iran. If Armenians haven't figured this out yet, there's a 0% chance of survival.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Regardless of my own optimism, this is exactly why it is factually doubtful that you will survive as a people - in Iran or outside of it. Read up on your history - the worst time for Armenia & Armenians came following its disassociation with Iran. If Armenians haven't figured this out yet, there's a 0% chance of survival.

So we should go back under the bloody rule of Iran? IS that what you are saying?

Because our golden age always comes when we are independent from foreign rule.

[Persopolis]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

So we should go back under the bloody rule of Iran?

Like I said: If you don't understand history - you are bound to repeat it. "The Bloody Rule of Iran" - Hilarious. Is that what the previous post was about? Or did someone suggest that Armenia invade Iran. And I said that you will likely not survive if you don't understand history.

The fact is that Armenian politicians went with the Russians - and each of the following took place:

* Armenian Genocide at the hands of Turks - without Russian protection.
* Loss of 3/4 of Armenia - handed to the Ottomans by Russia and Armenians.
* Stalin ordered tens of thousands of Armenians to be executed and deported to bring Armenia's population to 700,000 in an effort to weaken it and make it a part of Georgia.
* 1930s the Russians tried to physically eliminate the Armenian Church and killed off many of its leaders.
* Great Purge and the Moscow Show Trials against Armenians.
* In 1944 about 200,000 Hamshenis (Persian-Armenians) deported by Russia.
* Czar Nicholas II closed down Armenian schools and attempted to deprive the Armenian Church of the income from its hereditary properties.
* Leonid Brezhnev's rule Armenian economy was undermined by indifference and corruption at all levels.
* 1988 a massacre of Armenians occurred in Sumgait, a working-class suburb of Baku, again without Russian help.
* Russia also had no problem sending 250,000 Armenians to a certain death on the front lines during World War II - while the Russian boys sipped vodka while you drew enemy fire.
* Today the Russian and Armenian mob sells your girls and women to the Turks and Dubai the way a farmer sells apples.

... seriously I could go on.

Now Armenians mostly from Yerevan, from their own poor choices, have solidified a reputation of being unreliable citizens following the Russian takeover. Russians saw in the Armenian people a most useful instrument for the advancement of its Middle and Near Eastern policy, a people historically protected by Persia who could be manipulated and then be employed against the Middle East at the opportune moment. Like I said - it's wishful thinking to see much hope for Armenia if there hasn't been a national awakening as to what really happened.


Do you know the Russian word for "military base"? "Armenia." And you want Armenians to move back to Armenia and to make themselves a part of that chaos when Armenians don't understand their own history and the consequences of terrible decision-making? During Iran's "bloody rule" there were more Armenians living in Iran than there exist in all of Armenia today. Historically, Armenian progress & prosperity is synonymous with the times of Armenia's association with Iran - not Russia & not Turkey. What's even more hopeless is that not much was done to stem the tide of Armenians moving from Iran to Glendale - so now the Armenian community in Iran is shrinking and you're losing ground daily.


Everything that you are trying to regain is what you lost when you left Iran - in return you became a Russian military outpost; with the Russians owning a substantial portions of Armenia's economy (what is left of it); and incurred massive debt that will take your grandchildren's grandchildren into poverty for generations. The sad part is that you now may have to keep following that path simply to try to survive - while you find new ways to make new enemies.

The future is bleak my friend.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Like I said: If you don't understand history - you are bound to repeat it. "The Bloody Rule of Iran" - Hilarious. Is that what the previous post was about? Or did someone suggest that Armenia invade Iran. And I said that you will likely not survive if you don't understand history.

The fact is that Armenian politicians went with the Russians - and each of the following took place:

We will choose Russia over Iran every day, because we fought with the Russians against Iran in the past. I and huge majority of Armenians support our politicians and their choices towards Russia and our relationship towards them.

* Armenian Genocide at the hands of Turks - without Russian protection.

Eastern and Western Armenia were created by Iran and the Ottoman empire, the two empires divided Armenia between the two of them.

Where was Persia? Where were your soldiers? And FYI Russian and Armenian soldiers had liberated most of Western Armenia before the revolution and the Russian soldiers were forced to retread. The population of Van was saved because of the Russian advance. Before WWI Russia had plans to conquer all of Western-Armenia, they already had support of the British the only thing that stopped them was the first WWI.

* Loss of 3/4 of Armenia - handed to the Ottomans by Russia and Armenians.

Our Lands, we do as we like with them. If we want to build a stairway to heaven we can do that because it's our land we do as we like and no foreigner will ever tell us what we can or can't do with it.

* Stalin ordered tens of thousands of Armenians to be executed and deported to bring Armenia's population to 700,000 in an effort to weaken it and make it a part of Georgia.

Stalin is a Georgian not a Russian but we can not expect you to know that can we?

* 1930s the Russians tried to physically eliminate the Armenian Church and killed off many of its leaders.

In the Communist leadership were as many Georgians, Armenians etc. that you can not blame the Russians for what happened then.

* Great Purge and the Moscow Show Trials against Armenians.

Was against every one not focused on the Armenians, every one suffered not only the Armenians the Russians also suffered.

* In 1944 about 200,000 Hamshenis (Muslim Persian-Armenians) deported

.
Hamshensin are not Persian Armenians, they are Armenians that adopted islam nothing else don't know where you got that retarded idea. Present some sources that it happened because in 1944 Stalin was doing everything he could to keep Armenians friendly and was fighting a war in the east and preparing to invade Iran and Turkey.

* Czar Nicholas II closed down Armenian schools and attempted to deprive the Armenian Church of the income from its hereditary properties.

Shah Abas deported 200000 Armenians from Armenia, were tens of thousands died before they arrived in the new city he had created and many more died when they were deported to other provinces. The problems we have today in Nakhijevan can be traced back to that one event, so you as a Persian have nothing to say about anything the Russians did.

* Leonid Brezhnev's rule Armenian economy was undermined by indifference and corruption at all levels.

How was that against the Armenians, to the Armenian people it was the best time of their life and corruption could be found through all of SU.

* 1988 a massacre of Armenians occurred in Sumgait, a working-class suburb of Baku, again without Russian help.

Where was Iran? Or in 93 when Turkey was getting ready to invade where was Iran? Why weren't your soldiers there to protect the Armenian population? Can you tell me that? Russia as state ceased to exist after the October revolution and was created again in 91. So everything in between you should blame it on the people that were in charge but I don't expect for you to understand.

* Russia also had no problem sending 250,000 Armenians to a certain death on the front lines during World War II - while the Russian boys sipped vodka while you drew enemy fire.

You know nothing about what happened during those days in the SU no one stayed home sipping vodka, every one went and fought to defend their homelands, my great uncle was one of them, one of the first battalions to enter Berlin was his so I will not let a clown like you insult the heroic acts that he and his brothers in arms did in defense of their country.

* Today the Russian and Armenian mob sells your girls and women the way a farmer sells apples.

And Iranians are importing drugs to Armenia which is as bad as what the two mobs are doing and both should be stopped.

Do you know the Russian word for "military base"? "Armenia." And you want Armenians to move back to Armenia and to make themselves a part of chaos when Armenians don't understand their own history and the consequences of terrible decision-making? During Iran's "bloody rule" there were more Armenians living in Iran that there exist in all of Armenia today.

thank you for showing your true colors, first acting as a friend of Armenians but in reality you are nothing more than our enemy. I will tell you why you are our enemy, because you are against our independence, you want us to become a part of Iran. Let me tell you that it will never happen.

[Persopolis]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I will tell you why you are our enemy, because you are against our independence, you want us to become a part of Iran. Let me tell you that it will never happen.

Oh no - and bring that post-Bolshevik crap to Iran? Not a chance. Shah Abbas saved you from extinction.

My previous post addressed your comments in that it mentioned where to look for the information: "A school teacher can open the door to the classroom, but you have to walk in yourself."

Posted by Karo:
Our Lands, we do as we like with them [Loss of 3/4 of Armenia - handed to the Ottomans by Russia and Armenians]. If we want to build a stairway to heaven we can do that because it's our land we do as we like and no foreigner will ever tell us what we can or can't do with it.

Like I said, the future looks bleak for you.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Oh no - and bring that post-Bolshevik crap to Iran? Not a chance. Shah Abbas saved you from extinction.

My previous post addressed your comments in that it mentioned where to look for the information: "A school teacher can open the door to the classroom, but you have to walk in yourself."

Keep repeating that to yourself if that makes you feel better but for the Armenians that was the same as what the Turks were doing to us.
To me you are nothing more than a troll who talks Bs with no sources for his retarded claims.

[Persopolis]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Iran's Responsibility Ended to Armenia Here: Don't come running to us (again) if it happens again ....
(Funny how one map debunks your post-Bolshevik propaganda ... it reminds me of an addict that can't admit he's hooked.)

for the Armenians that was the same as what the Turks were doing to us.

Building cities for you, relocating you to Iran when you couldn't defend against Turkic and Mongol invasions, is on par with the Armenian Genocide? Okay Karo - see what happened (in the map above) when you had your way. (Note to Self: I've really have to let Iranians know that Iran sheltering Armenians fleeing the AG is not something that seems to be taught to Armenian kids or appreciated by them.)

We will choose Russia over Iran every day.

Not sure it's up to you; doubt Iran will accept a Russian-5th Column within its borders. Best of luck to you.